Does that mean that you recognize that He does exist?

What makes you think that? Are you going to produce a quote from me or not?

Are you going to answer my question?

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

Are you going to answer my question?

Gotcha.

I take it, then, that:
- you can't produce a quote from me where I said "the Christian god does not exist"
- you can't answer the question "what is the 'opinion without evidence' of athiesm".
- you cannot show how "Faith" qualifies as evidence.

You can, of course, produce a quote and answer the questions; else, you lose.

LS

Hey cats, just for the heck of it,
here is what the King James says:

Hebrews 11:1 & 6

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I have a theory. It came to my mind when I met God.

"Faith is God's precious gift to the believer in giving
us Himself - without disturbing another wonderful gift,
that of Free Moral Agency."

I love gravity, it always keeps my feet planted when I fly!

Thanks, but these don't qualify faith as evidence either:

Hebrews 11:1 & 6
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,

Hoping for something doesn't make it real or imply that it's real.

the evidence of things not seen.

If it can't be seen (or otherwise detected in some way in reality) it is not evidence.

"Faith is God's precious gift to the believer in giving
us Himself - without disturbing another wonderful gift,
that of Free Moral Agency."

Also doesn't meet the definition of evidence. Sorry.

LS

Dennis,

I have no interest in the long winded battle of if god exists or not in this thread. I can't even be bothered talking evolution with you here in this thread. But I am interested in your points here. I can't even be bothered talking evolution with you here in this thread.

If anyone supports any "Scientific Theory" as fact, then they are uneducated screwballs

I would like to ask you directly do you believe the following two Scientific theory's are fact or not.

Gravity?
Flight?

There are many more but being a rc modeller you should be up to speed on these two.

At least until further scientific discoveries are made to dispel the old "Theories"
Happens all the time in science.

Can you please site some of these and the dates of the old and new theory's?

We can talk about theory's and laws later if you like.

Hoggy - get back to you later.

Getting distracted here.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

- you can't produce a quote from me where I said "the Christian god does not exist"

Then, that must mean you think He does exist.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

I would like to ask you directly do you believe the following two Scientific theory's are fact or not.

Gravity?
Flight?

Look, I am not a scientist.

But, I suppose Gravity could be considered scientific law. But, don't quote me on that.

As far as flight. Well, it happens.

Can you please site some of these and the dates of the old and new theory's?

To numerous to mention. Just a few that come to mind:

E=MC2
Big Bang Theory
String Theory
Dark Matter

New discoveries in the universe actually bring up new questions with much, much more to be discovered.

etc, etc,etc, etc, etc.

You will have to look up dates and old theories if you are interested.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

Then, that must mean you think He does exist.

What makes you think I think that? Seriously, what's your reasoning here?

LS

Then, that must mean you think He does exist.

What makes you think I think that? Seriously, what's your reasoning

The reasoning if you claim to never deny the existence of God, then you very likely recognize the existence if God.

Simple reasoning.

No?

If not, please explain either your denial of the existence of God, or your acceptance of his existence.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

Example: It is known that on June 30, 1908 in Tunguska, Siberia, there was an explosion equivalent to the detonation of about 15 million tons of TNT. Many hypotheses have been proposed for what caused the explosion. It is theorized that the explosion was caused by a natural extraterrestrial phenomenon, and was not caused by man. Is this theory a fact? No. The event is a recorded fact. Is this this theory generally accepted to be true, based on evidence to-date? Yes. Can this theory be shown to be false and be discarded? Yes.

This is a good analogy for the Theory of Evolution.

It is theorised that all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor, by the process of natural selection etc. Is this theory a fact? No. That all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor is a recorded fact. Is this theory generally accepted to be true, based on evidence to-date? Yes. Can this theory be shown to be false and be discarded? Yes.

When non-biologists talk about biological evolution they often confuse two different aspects of the definition. On the one hand there is the question of whether or not modern organisms have evolved from older ancestral organisms or whether modern species are continuing to change over time. On the other hand there are questions about the mechanism of the observed changes... how did evolution occur? Biologists consider the existence of biological evolution to be a fact. It can be demonstrated today and the historical evidence for its occurrence in the past is overwhelming. However, biologists readily admit that they are less certain of the exact mechanism of evolution; there are several theories of the mechanism of evolution.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

When in Rome....

they are old and cannot read well.

This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains substantiated facts to back their position.

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution

We agree that the following evidence-based facts

about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planethave been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.

The reasoning if you claim to never deny the existence of God, then you very likely recognize the existence if God.
Simple reasoning.
No?

No. Incorrect reasoning. I have taken no position on your god. I don't take it seriously at all. I don't claim it does not exist nor do I claim it does. You are the only one making a claim of any kind (that it does exist); I am simply responding with "evidence, please".

I do not believe until given an actual, real-world reason to do so.

If not, please explain either your denial of the existence of God, or your acceptance of his existence.

My position is neither.

You, OTOH, have a very definite position and the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it.

Until then, I don't believe you.

LS

It is theorised that all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor, by the process of natural selection etc. Is this theory a fact? No. That all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor is a recorded fact. Is this theory generally accepted to be true, based on evidence to-date? Yes. Can this theory be shown to be false and be discarded? Yes.

This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains substantiated facts to back their position.

We agree that the following evidence-based facts.

You people are so full of crap, its spillin out your eyeballs.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

No. Incorrect reasoning. I have taken no position on your god. I don't claim it does not exist nor do I claim it does.

Then take a position.

Which is it?

You are the only one making a claim of any kind (that it does exist); I am simply responding with "evidence, please".

I have already described that to you in detail multiple times on this thread alone.

You are beating a dead horse, getting repetitive and rather foolish and stupid.

Until then, I don't believe you.

Go ahead. Ask me how much I give a sh#t.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains substantiated facts to back their position.

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution

We agree that the following evidence-based facts
about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planethave been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.

Then take a position.
Which is it?

It's not my claim; I don't need to take a position. I don't take it seriously in any way at all. You may as well be claiming magical elves guide your life - My response would be the same:
Your claim, your responsibility to make it believable.

I do not believe claims until they're substantiated with something.

I have already described that to you in detail multiple times on this thread alone.

Nothing of which qualifies as evidence or substance to your claim of the existence of your god in any way at all.

So I have no reason to believe you.

LS

Comprehension.

learn it.

So I have no reason to believe you.

Fine.

Then get on with your miserable existence.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

It is theorised that all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor, by the process of natural selection etc. Is this theory a fact? No. That all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor is a recorded fact. Is this theory generally accepted to be true, based on evidence to-date? Yes. Can this theory be shown to be false and be discarded? Yes.
This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains substantiated facts to back their position.
We agree that the following evidence-based facts.

You people are so full of crap, its spillin out your eyeballs.

I tried to get TLE to understand this too and he never made it out of the gate either...

LS