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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Eureka!!! Linear servo motion!!!!!
03-10-2014 01:34 PM  6 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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It is a new thing that will sell a lot of helicopters just because ppl will think it really does make a huge difference.
Hardly.

The advantage in this design is the ability to begin with linear motion before going into the tx to program it. Mechanical advantage begins when the servo is non end point type and the servo gear is reduced thus reducing the profile of the standard configuration. If you didn't see this before I said it here.

The Heinselit machine must be heavy with all that gizmo stuff going on, nice swash plate though, links completely covered.

Overall, the servo output design creates another failure point and question of added weight. It's my guess they persued this in order to stabilize the servo output where arms would normally twist under heavy load.

Alas, we haven't seen it all, and there's plenty more experimenting to go. Not much to improve, just refine, a twirly is a twirly is a twirly, and always will be just a twirly. You can put a skirt on an elephant but will it dance? The sky hasn't fallen, nor will it ever.

I had been sold a Robbe Spirit Pro a couple of weeks ago, it's mental how everything old is being copied on today's run of manufactured helis, 10 years, is that old? You want something stunning? Go to the KDE site and check out the motor vids, those'll give you a kick in the old arse, don't say you weren't warned when after reviewing the vids you will want one, I 'know I do, frightening power.

Now back to those Germans and their flying sewing machines

2cs
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03-10-2014 02:23 PM  6 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Heli porn. That is all.60% of the time, it works every time!
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03-10-2014 03:13 PM  6 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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For the most part not much makes a ton of difference until you start getting above say 145 mph. After that, EVERYTHING matters. Above 150mph, double everything. Given what we have seen at IRCHA over the past few years and the fact that Jan has never been about selling lots of models, you can double damn guarantee he designed that model as we see it for very specific reasons.

Question: Is there a difference in loads feeding back to the servo with that rack system versus a traditional direct link or bellcrank system. As in the way you can't turn a worm drive's motor by rotating the output of the transmission?

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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03-10-2014 03:48 PM  6 years ago
JimmyC

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As in the way you can't turn a worm drive's motor by rotating the output of the transmission?
From what I see in the picture it looks like a 1:1 ratio. I'm not sure but I would think it could be driven from the swash to servo the same as the servo to swash (leverage wise).

If I had to guess the reason for this setup. I would say it's maybe to eliminate bending in the linkage to have precise control at high speeds.
Or just to move the servos as tight as possible to the airframe.
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03-10-2014 04:31 PM  6 years ago
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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So, yeah, linear motion, but at diminished effective servo specs.
Actually, the linear force available increases as the angle increases. The servo's torque remains the same, but because the output moves less per angular displacement, linear force is actually increased.

Please don't get me wrong, it's some nice engineering.

- John
RR rules!
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03-10-2014 04:37 PM  6 years ago
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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does any one have a pic of a older machine with the weird servo set up from a couple years ago ??

found it

https://rc.runryder.com/t521089p1/

this heli had a pretty weird set up

Trex600n,Trex500,MR25,MikadoLoGo5003d/KDE,Goblin 380XNova,CastleCreations,Ys,JR XG8,Tags Mini XBus Dmss//FAA# FA3NYC9TAP
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03-10-2014 04:54 PM  6 years ago
HeimD

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the great southwest

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Heli porn. That is all.
Yes. Other than extremely esoteric applications like speed competition, it would be nothing more than an overly complicated design that adds weight, complexity and expense to a garden variety sport helicopter which 99+% of people actually fly. I also see that rack and pinion servo design getting sloppy over time as the gear spacing opens up from wear, crashing, etc.
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03-10-2014 05:54 PM  6 years ago
whoamis

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san francisco, ca

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JKos, yeah you right.
Speed goes down but that's not a critical factor.
oops, bounced it!
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03-10-2014 06:35 PM  6 years ago
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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Either the TX (eCCPM) or the FBL unit already takes out the non-linearity. In order for rack and pinion to work, you have to have special s/w in the FBL. Do curent FBL units have a LINEAR SERVO option?

Then there is the slop in the rack and pinion. I'm not sold. The later pics. look like just a gear wheel (the pinion) on a std. servo. I actually had rack and pinion servos once upon a time. They disappeared because they were of no advantage after computer radios came out.
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03-10-2014 08:10 PM  6 years ago
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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edit previous post added picsTrex600n,Trex500,MR25,MikadoLoGo5003d/KDE,Goblin 380XNova,CastleCreations,Ys,JR XG8,Tags Mini XBus Dmss//FAA# FA3NYC9TAP
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03-10-2014 08:29 PM  6 years ago
RyanW

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Edmond, Oklahoma

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An additional gear drive like this will usually increase "holding torque". My guess is that it will be fine in a full fuse, but I wouldn't do it on a pod n boom. Fly off of a grass/dirt runway and get some debris in that elevator gear- watch out!-Ryan
Mikado USA, Kontronik, Opti-Power, MKS Servos
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03-10-2014 08:47 PM  6 years ago
HeimD

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this heli had a pretty weird set up
Doesn't look like a linear setup. All they did was extend the servo output via a shaft to another rotary arm under the swash.
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03-10-2014 08:48 PM  6 years ago
buster1

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Manhattan, NY

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I am interested to hear when the marketing comes out for this Heli - How Jan describes the technical aspects of it.
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03-10-2014 08:54 PM  6 years ago
jgunpilot

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Pollock, LA

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An additional gear drive like this will usually increase "holding torque". My guess is that it will be fine in a full fuse, but I wouldn't do it on a pod n boom. Fly off of a grass/dirt runway and get some debris in that elevator gear- watch out!
Good point, since they probably use 48 oz/in servos to save money.
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03-10-2014 09:06 PM  6 years ago
Retired2011

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Lee's Summit, MO

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^^^That's funny
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03-10-2014 10:04 PM  6 years ago
JEEPWORLD2002/2

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Blue Bell, Pa

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I like the extra metal bling also like how it moved the weight around put mtr on back n servo weight up frontTrex600n,Trex500,MR25,MikadoLoGo5003d/KDE,Goblin 380XNova,CastleCreations,Ys,JR XG8,Tags Mini XBus Dmss//FAA# FA3NYC9TAP
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03-11-2014 12:50 AM  6 years ago
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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its a rack and pinion on a servo....

why not just design and use a multi thread rod linear actuator...they have been around forever...it would be just as fast and holding torque would be nil...youve all seen the really cheap and tiny version: the "linear" servos on those small blade helis...

just scale them up for big boy helis and use quality treaded rods with mutli threads for speed using HV HS servos, just a different mechanical output...woala...liner servos for helis.
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
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03-11-2014 01:14 AM  6 years ago
Retired2011

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Perhaps you should challenge Jan Henseleit on his, less than perfect design!
Meanwhile, if you can build a better mouse trap....
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03-11-2014 01:43 AM  6 years ago
Tbird

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Indiana

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sure looks like a lot of extra parts...
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03-11-2014 01:47 AM  6 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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woala
less than perfect design!
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Eureka!!! Linear servo motion!!!!!
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