RunRyder RC
 6  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 2657 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterHIROBOHirobo SDX › Hirobo SDX FBL conversion using Rudiger Feil part
01-04-2014 11:10 AM  4 years agoPost 1
Vigor3DFX

rrVeteran

Oakthorpe, Midlands, UK.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi all,
some words of advise please, if just bought part 0412-DC-SDX from hirobo-online.de

[url=http://www.world-of-heli.de/flybarless/mechanik/sdx-direct-control-conversion-kit.html]

This is the quick and easy way to convert to fbl (apparently)
yes, looks too easy, uses the standard head, zero delta extended ball links..

just wondering if anybody has used this and any hints or tips would be great,
Many thanks

Tony

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-04-2014 02:49 PM  4 years agoPost 2
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I doubt anyone here Stateside is using that. I have those swash pullers as it is a standard Hirobo Scale unit.

The problem I see is that the long balls are too long and the pivot balls for the swash won't offset that. Most FBL units will struggle with the fact that too much/too little collective pitch and cyclic will be available.

This is what a bunch of us have been doing over here:

You can use the Hirobo Scale Swash puller like Rudy has on his site or you can use a Mikado unit. The balls are Century balls(CNLR1017 balls and CNLR2285 Rods) and plain 3mm nuts on the back side of the blade grip arm and just use some QUK rods and ball links from any good shop in the UK and you're done.

BTW Delta doesn't really apply to FBL type heads that have the swash directly connected to the blade pitch arms.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-04-2014 08:56 PM  4 years agoPost 3
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

TMoore, you don't have any related problems with the grip balls being close to the main shaft?

The fbl heads have a ball arm that is extended to provide better servo torque and slow the direct link to swash geometry.

I kept my pitch control arms for now but could lower the mast, fab up grip link arms screwing those onto my grips, and simplifying the head altogether. If I used the original grip arms in a direct link configuration I would have to extend the balls on the lower swash arms to maintain good leverage, two ways to do this.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-04-2014 09:38 PM  4 years agoPost 4
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

TMoore, you don't have any related problems with the grip balls being close to the main shaft?

The fbl heads have a ball arm that is extended to provide better servo torque and slow the direct link to swash geometry.

I kept my pitch control arms for now but could lower the mast, fab up grip link arms screwing those onto my grips, and simplifying the head altogether. If I used the original grip arms in a direct link configuration I would have to extend the balls on the lower swash arms to maintain good leverage, two ways to do this.
I've been using this configuration for at least 2 years or more. What sort of problems would I have?

Do you fly much? Are you very familiar with most current FBL controllers?

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 01:02 AM  4 years agoPost 5
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Do you fly much? Are you very familiar with most current FBL controllers?
I was wondering about using the grips from a fb set up which have the ball closer to the main axis than fbl grips. I know the bell crank mechanisms on the servos to swash help with torque translation. Sure, the fbl controller would help with things, that's worth keeping in mind, good point.

I'm relatively new to flying collective pitch helis with only a real 2 years worth of flying but have known about and studied them for about 5 years. No rush. There's a lo-o-o-o-o-t of things mechanical I've been involved with off and on for most of my life, hobby aircraft being one of those began at age 5. It's always been out there.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 01:21 AM  4 years agoPost 6
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You might want to do a little more research. The grips that the OP is going to use and the ones that I showed in the photo are FB grips. You really dont get it. You think.you get it but your posts don't show that you understand.

Study up and get a machine together with a flybarless controller so you can get some experience. That would be a big help in your learning curve.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 01:53 AM  4 years agoPost 7
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have flown the EXCACT setup displayed by TMoore for two seasons with great success. Experience carries more validity that posturing and speculation. This is one of the easiest and most affordable conversions in the hobby. Verified good results.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 05:15 AM  4 years agoPost 8
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have a fbl 450 se conversion, a 300x fbl, A Al pro v2 with Ar7200bx and now the 550 Shuttle no worries, just asking about any geometry problems in the grip to servo relationship. The short arm grips solve a problem.

Some machines are slightly different than others in fb configuration but generally the same when converted to fbl.
You really dont get it. You think.you get it but your posts don't show that you understand.

Study up and get a machine together with a flybarless controller so you can get some experience. That would be a big help in your learning curve.
I'm a little past the "learning curve" thanks, all refinement now.

This sort of thing of conversion to fbl with a fb head does interest guys who have older fb machines and are looking to make an upgrade without chucking the good fb head parts. That would be a serious waste.

do you have a top view?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 05:19 AM  4 years agoPost 9
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm a little past the "learning curve" thanks, all refinement now.
This sort of thing of conversion to fbl with a fb head does interest guys who have older fb machines and are looking to make an upgrade without chucking the good fb head parts. That would be a serious waste.
What do you think I did here? That was a conversion from FB. You're questions aren't asking what you think they are.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 05:25 AM  4 years agoPost 10
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The direct link set up used by Terry works fine. I switched to that set up after runnning an indirect arrangement through the stock bell mixers on the head. The direct link set up gave me more cyclic throw as demanded by my controller during firmware evolution. In a perfect world, the main pushrod is basically parallel to the mainshaft, but using these FB grips as a conversion requires a bit of acceptance of that which is quite good enough for this application. The control system demands on the servos in this a 50 sized model are well within the capabilities of the servos. The length of ball used in the referenced original conversion, while it might more precisely optimize a desired collective range, would not yield a cyclic range that is appropriate for many FBL controllers. For this reason the shorter ball on the pitch arm used by Terry and the rest of us is actually the more apporopriate choice.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 05:42 AM  4 years agoPost 11
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

In a perfect world, the main pushrod is basically parallel to the mainshaft, but using these FB grips as a conversion requires a bit of acceptance of that which is quite good enough for this application. The control system demands on the servos in this a 50 sized model are well within the capabilities of the servos.
And this is what we need to know before diving in, thanks very much. as my Shuttle only gets 6- and +10 degree pitch, adjusting or removing the cranks affords the model more cp actuation while modifying the center hub to suit would bring the rotor down an inch.

Now I understand the options more than before this topic was posted because I'd never seen someone link direct to the fb type grips.

all the best, great info all around.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 05:54 AM  4 years agoPost 12
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I wouldn't lower the head until you fly it.

One thing that may be confusing in the picture I posted is that the center hub is an FB main mast directly from the SDX. What isn't clear is the fact that there are CNC machined center covers that started out life as a very different part shown here:

I wrote a CNC program program to produce these parts and ended up not using them.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 06:22 AM  4 years agoPost 13
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

TMoore covered the fly bar carrier hole with machined aluminum parts, at least temporarily. I simply covered that hole with white heat shrink tubing. It looks much nicer and add virtually no weight, cost, or time. The glaring hole after the conversion visually annoyed me. Now the conversion is not even noticeable by the average passerby.

My SDX is a blast to shoot autos with as a fbl machine, especially with Falcon brand blades.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 01:47 PM  4 years agoPost 14
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I see the fb crank is maintained in the set up, very well sir.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 06:12 PM  4 years agoPost 15
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I see the fb crank is maintained in the set up, very well sir.
That was during earlier testing phases. The first picture posted shows no bell crank, which is the latest, tested, and proven concept. TMoore only posted the second photo to illustrate the cnc machined covers that he prototyped for the head block because an additional detailed photo was requested. Don't take the design out of context or misconstrue the flow of information, that would be a mistake.

Tyler

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2014 06:25 PM  4 years agoPost 16
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Like Tyler said, those are old photos of the first iteration of this type of head. The first version using the mixers didn't offer enough cyclic or collective as I recall so I scrapped that idea and went direct.

Here is the current config:

This is on an EVO 90:

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-06-2014 02:47 AM  4 years agoPost 17
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I see, good thing you got that clear as a bell now.

here's my set up with the old mixing arms but they might come out for something more equally distanced from the main axis,

as per your advice the rate gyros I wanted to use originally, I realize they are going a little too old school and could be more handful than is practical and safe. A 3x gyro is not expensive, I don't have two other digital gyros to replace the rate ones so my money will be invested wisely with a full 3x gyro on my bird (why experiment and see it foolishly dump).

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-06-2014 04:03 PM  4 years agoPost 18
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

My SDX FBL Conversion
I just added this to my original e-conversion thread.. take a look and tell me what you think.. rather straight forward since I already had the Hirobo metal blade grips!!!
Going to try the V-blades but have a set of FBL blades coming for it!!!

https://rc.runryder.com/t541658p1/

Thx, Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-18-2014 03:59 AM  4 years agoPost 19
DHL

rrNovice

sanjose,CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Here my Sceadu FBL

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
02-17-2014 01:07 AM  4 years agoPost 20
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Doorman, all you need is a solid alu square hub block drilled and tapped to lower the head. Easy enough to bolt the four head bolts to. A lathe turned hub will make it perfect.

Now, are the SDX FZ-5 grips a thrust bearing grip? And what about the feathering shaft? If you see my latest zx Shuttle fbl get up, I fab'd a follower hub of alu after the pic was taken, everything else is pretty much as seen here,

I'm a little concerned the grips could use thrust bearings and the feathering shaft I read isn't up to 3d and/or heavy sport. One option I tried was a 500 Align head (8mm main shaft) but the grips are 10mm, my TT blades and the original grips are 12mm.

I'm converting to ccpm and have lots of pitch to work with. The shuttle hub could be lowered another cm by drilling a new set of holes for the main shaft closer to the feathering shaft case than the washout crank holes used in the pic.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 2657 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterHIROBOHirobo SDX › Hirobo SDX FBL conversion using Rudiger Feil part
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 6  Topic Subscribe

Monday, June 18 - 12:50 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online