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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Safeguarding my flying lessons, which system? BD, SK, NAZA??
01-03-2014 02:00 PM  4 years agoPost 1
fwerff

rrNovice

Netherlands

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Hi newby here!
Started with heli flying about 2 years ago, but due to time constraints haven't been out flying much in the past year.
I have an Align T-Rex 600ESP and have been hovering tail-in most of the time. Some tail-in figure 8s go quite well too.
About 2 months ago, I was flying when I was heavily bothered by a bug being overly interested in my nose
To cut a long story short, it took to long to land and I lost it... first my self control (ignoring the bug), then the heli
Damage will set me back a rough 250 euro's to repair.

While saving up money for the repair, I am now considering to include 2 modifications with the repair project.
First an upgrade of the (flybarred) rotorhead to the 600DFC head and secondly since I'll need an FB gyro anyway, a FB controller that will help me from avoiding anymore crashes.

Now what am I looking for;
- In the end, when I have sufficient confidence in my flying skills, I'll use the Trex for a scale project (Airwolf....yup... childhood dream ). I have no ambition to do 3D flying.
- To support the increase in flying capabilities, I wish to have a controller that will give me a coaxial stability, but which can be turned down (preferably gradually) when flying compentence increases.
- A self-leveling or rescue feature which I can activate when things get out of control or whenever I need to get rid of another anoying bug

I did quite some searching and I think the most suitable options are:
- Bavarian Demon 3SX
- Skookum SK720BE
- DJI NAZA-H
I've seen both the Skookum and DJI can be expanded with an optional GPS module, but I don't think I have a use for that.

What I haven't been able to figure out, is which of these three systems is most suitable for my needs
I'm also having a hard time getting a clear image of the exact difference between these systems. They seem to do the same thing, yet there also seem to be quite some differences in features and setup.

I would greatly appreciate it if you experienced pilots could help me out with this and provide me with some insights and experiences regaring these systems.
Thanks in advance.

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01-03-2014 05:14 PM  4 years agoPost 2
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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BD 3sx without a doubt has the the best rescue mode and offers many user options on how it reacts when initiated. Also good for scale flight assistance.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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01-03-2014 07:24 PM  4 years agoPost 3
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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My experience with the BDSX is that it does a great job of repelling the heli from the ground when you lose orientation, but that's not what you want in the case of a bug bothering you, because now your heli is a few hundred feet high and getting higher when you get rid of the bug, which sounds like it would be a bigger problem for you than fighting off wildlife.

The BDSX does offer a leveling mode, but again, that's not a solution for you. All it does is get the heli (fairly) level. If there is wind, or if you were already moving in a direction, it's just going to keep going that way, albeit with the disk mostly level, so at least it shouldn't accelerate much. If just leveling is what you are after the Ikon offers exactly the same leveling ability (think of it like a coax type mode) that I found to be every bit as good same BDSX while in my experience flying better everywhere else. Neither will get the heli dead on level, but it'll be within a few degrees, and at least gives you a chance to regain your composure. The BD is much more forgiving of a heli with vibrations and poor setup than the Ikon when it comes to level, b you have to weigh that against the price tag being twice as high.

I've never had the SK or Naza in a heli, but I did have a Naza in a multirotor and the leveling performance was pretty much as described above. Anything that can level the heli will have pretty much the same results. Now, if you habitually get eaten by wild animals and need to fight them off while flying instead of hitting hold, landing and then going into battle, you really need one of the GPS systems. That's the only way you will be able to hit a switch and have the heli just park itself in the sky. Without a GPS the unit had no way of knowing if it is moving, it just knows if it is level or not. With a GPS on a Naza (I would assume Skookum as well) you could theoretically set your transmitter down, walk away and go to he bathroom and come back and it'd still be sitting there in the sky.

If going for scale, the Naza is probably your best bet. I spoke with a guy heavily into scale a while back and he said that he had tried the Helicommand (what the Bavarian Demon used to be called) and vBar and found that the Naza in attitude mode was smoother and looked more scale in flight, plus the GPS allowed him to just park the thing in the sky if he had an issue. To me smoothness is more determined by individual setup, but that is what I was told.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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01-04-2014 02:14 AM  4 years agoPost 4
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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The BD can be programmed to return to upright only, return to level upright/inverted whichever is closest, and may also add in climb with pitch. The amount of pitch and rate of climb is also customizable. The rate of ascent can be mild to wild Therefore, chasing a bug does not necessarily result a a high altitude helicopter when you return your focus to the machine. If you require a stupid amount of time to chase said bug you deserve to plow in your machine no matter what electronics you choose to install. Bug wins.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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01-04-2014 02:27 AM  4 years agoPost 5
Retired2011

rrElite Veteran

Lee's Summit, MO

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Great info, from both of you guys, thank you!

I've been considering a BD, but have been told by others at the field to learn to save it myself...which I cannot argue with. However, there are times I think it would be handy...if I could remember to use it.

Chet

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01-04-2014 03:10 AM  4 years agoPost 6
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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Remembering to hit the switch is the tough part for those that already know how to fly. I've had self leveling in my machines for a year or so (with both the BD and Ikon), and every time something goes wrong I go to instinct and just fly it myself. Of course I've been flying helis for 20 years, so I've developed the reflexes to where it is natural at this point, and even trying to train myself to hit the level switch has been unsuccessful.

The only time I use it, beyond showing people how cool it is, is when I know I am going to try something new that I really am not comfortable with. I put my finger by the switch In preparation and it works great. That said, before I had it I just always kept a bailout plan in mind and flew the heli out of whatever I put it in.

I think for a new guy it would be great, and a real confidence booster. I still think they should learn all the orientations and how to fly it on their own but it is nice to have a backup. The only caution there is you never know which way it will be facing when it recovers beyond being upright. So a new guy could suddenly be looking at the heli nose in or some other direction they haven't learned. The systems just take the fastest route to level and have no idea what compass heading they are on (GPS units excluded)

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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01-04-2014 03:13 AM  4 years agoPost 7
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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Another thing to keep in mind is if you aren't going to switch over everything you have to a system with self level/bailout, then don't bother. Reason being that you develop the habit of hitting the bailout switch then when you have an issue on a heli without it you will end up just piling the machine in since you have that habit built up.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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01-04-2014 03:43 AM  4 years agoPost 8
Retired2011

rrElite Veteran

Lee's Summit, MO

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Good advice, obviously based on experience, thanks.
I'll stick to my Vbars and move slowly into new moves, keeping a bailout plan in mind.

Chet

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01-04-2014 01:09 PM  4 years agoPost 9
fwerff

rrNovice

Netherlands

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Thanks for all the response guys!
I'm still a bit in doubt between the NAZA and the BD. Guess in the end it will be about price and availability when I go out to buy it.
In principal I do support the idea of learning the hard way being the best way, but I notice myself being scared to take my learning a step further. I feel a good FBL controller will help me get past that and get comfortable with all orientations. The challenge will be to turn the artificial help off as soon as possible.

Working and learing to finally make my childhood dream come true

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01-04-2014 01:11 PM  4 years agoPost 10
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH

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The best way to get past that is a sim and fuel/batteries for your heli. If you don't want to invest that time, having a bailout in your fbl controller is a decent substitute.

Nick Crego

Citizen #0168

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01-04-2014 07:49 PM  4 years agoPost 11
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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I'll stick to my Vbars and move slowly into new moves, keeping a bailout plan in mind.
I agree with this mindset. Caution and patience and perseverance is how I learned and it's hard to see any other way at this point.
I've not found, nor tried to be honest, any of these features to be much interest for me.
However, I have found it useful when teaching someone else. I've taken a young kid at the spur of the moment and got them up into a hover and doing some translations much easier than without. A couple new pilots (addicts) have been born that way. I take the feature away and get to old school after a few goes at it. They like that point too...it's like taking the training wheels off.
I let them buy their own heli before detaching the trainer.
Their parents hate me.

Team POP Secret

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01-23-2014 11:23 AM  4 years agoPost 12
FlyforMaelle

rrNovice

Canada

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..
Just fly 3 mistakes high? like 99% of us

Can i offer you a cup of man the **** up?

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01-23-2014 12:42 PM  4 years agoPost 13
fwerff

rrNovice

Netherlands

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Well... easy... my first crash is already turning out to be quite costly and rather time consuming (if only for saving up money for the repairs). Many great days have passed by now while still unable to fly.
I do not want to experience that again.... Even more because I know I can get a lot more damage than I did now (I was "lucky") and in which case it would take me even longer to get back in the air.

But... I'm happy to report I've been able to get my hands on a good deal for a DJI NAZA-H with GPS!. In the end it was the (very) good deal I could get making the decision for me between the NAZA and the Demon.
It will take me some more time (1~2 months) to get the required parts for the repair before I can fly again, so I will use that time to sim (PhoenixRC) and learn about the NAZA-H.

Working and learing to finally make my childhood dream come true

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