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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › IDLE UP1
12-27-2013 11:13 PM  4 years agoPost 21
D.Magee

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kansas city mo.

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I also think it is better to fly in idel up but your post said
hovering low to the ground around 1/3 throttle,I lost oreintation by then was too late to pull out of it so I hit the deck
If you lose oreitation low to the ground Idel up aint gona help. In fact it will cause a lot more damage.

Teameagles@HaveFun

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12-28-2013 01:37 AM  4 years agoPost 22
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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ya know, I used orientation for no better word to describe "couldn't really see what model was doing.
But ones things for sure am interested to see if it happens again if I get that idleup thing going.

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-28-2013 02:25 AM  4 years agoPost 23
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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lol... that's one of the main reasons I went all FPV. I've lost two machines already to orientation/WTF is it doing issues not much further away than the end of the runway.... So it finally ended up being cheaper to get some video gear and learn to fly from the "inside". I'll never have to practice nose-in or side-in ever again lol...

Plus I'm just getting old and my eyesight isn't that wonderful anymore. If you can watch TV you can see FPV with good goggles/glasses good enough lol...

LS

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12-28-2013 04:16 PM  4 years agoPost 24
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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...

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12-28-2013 05:02 PM  4 years agoPost 25
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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Fight modes
I use normal to take off. The governor kicks in at about quarter stick. The pitch curve is -7 to + 9.

Idle 1 & 2 are the same. They are for flight. The head speed is governed at 2000 rpm. The pitch curve is -10 to +10.

Throttle hold is for landing, always. The pitch curve is -12 to +12. Throttle hold is also for the inevitable. Learn to use this and it will greatly minimize any damage.

Old Guys Rule!

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12-28-2013 05:53 PM  4 years agoPost 26
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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quote>Idle up will not keep you from crashing! right! and didn't say it would help, but is something I havent tried and can always flip back to N flight if in trouble. I think everyones made their point..done

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-28-2013 06:04 PM  4 years agoPost 27
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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12-28-2013 09:49 PM  4 years agoPost 28
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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no problem at all but have ran into some bad apples around here and yes its hard to tell someones attitude over the internet. right now am trying to see if anyone knows the low speed factory setting for a OS28H so we can get this running right

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-28-2013 09:55 PM  4 years agoPost 29
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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Edit: Crap. You said low speed and I posted for high needle.
No Idea on the low speed. Sorry. I have a couple of plank 25's I can check if that might help. They are old school and have the throttle stops on them. Both have the idle mixture screw backed almost all the way out I guess for a rich idle. It's been a long time since I ran them.

Wayne

I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman

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12-29-2013 12:33 AM  4 years agoPost 30
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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no luck? ok howbout a setting on a OS32 maybe thier the same?

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-29-2013 12:57 AM  4 years agoPost 31
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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Found this. Still researching.

http://www.osengines.com/history/ostimeline09.html

This is a great site to learn the O.S. lineage and dates of mfg..

Wayne

I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman

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12-29-2013 12:59 AM  4 years agoPost 32
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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http://www.vrhc.co.uk/Heli%20Gear/E...ne%20review.jpg

Wayne

I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman

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12-29-2013 01:02 AM  4 years agoPost 33
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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Here's some poop on the 2H carburetor.

http://www.osengines.com/parts/xr22781000.html

Wayne

I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman

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12-29-2013 01:08 AM  4 years agoPost 34
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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BENTDABOOM: Does it have the 2F or 2H carb?

Either way, I would back the adjustment screw all the way out and try like a full turn back in and see what happens.

Wayne

I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman

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12-29-2013 07:07 PM  4 years agoPost 35
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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deleteski

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12-29-2013 08:59 PM  4 years agoPost 36
raptorapture

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Singapore

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Just to elaborate on the benefit of Idle Up as per the original question. It can help you in that it provides the ability to do a save faster thereby requiring less safety margin from the moment you figure out the save and apply it. The source of this benefit is the higher headspeed being applied to the increased pitch whether collective and or cyclic. this is more easily achieved on electric but also can be achieved via govenor on nitro. The govenor is the key part so that the rpm's and stored energy in the blades are there for when you apply the pitch. If you rely on a curve, usually the rpm is increased with the pitch which on a nitro will feel like forever when you need to do a save. Having said all that, the thing with high rpm which is the main part of Idle Up (Up I believe meaning faster) is that the heli reacts faster and therefore can also get you into trouble faster or when you try the save, you may not realize it is the wrong move until it is too late which will be much sooner. The second issue with Idle Up is that usually the curve is symmetric ie equal pitch up and down and if you are used to reducing power to gain some control you will find yourself quickly in the dirt the first time you try this on Idle Up. Been there, done that

Best news - Idle Up is fun, so fun in fact that I run 3 of them!

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12-30-2013 06:40 PM  4 years agoPost 37
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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hovering low to the ground around 1/3 throttle
Back to your original post, I found what is quoted above.

I would think your basic problem is how your helicopter is set up. Hovering at 1/3 throttle tells me you aren't close to being properly set up.

-----

If I have followed all your separate posts correctly, you have a Raptor 30 and you have an OS 28 motor installed. Is that correct?

If so, and if you're willing to spend some money to make this heli fly well, invest in an OS 37 SZ-H and a good muffler for it. It will make a HUGE difference in the heli and its flying capabilities.

If not, then we'll have to make do with the 28.

-----

Now, back to your heli.

You need to get the basic mechanical setup done correctly, this will get you away from a 1/3 stick hover, increase your head speed, and make your heli much more controllable and better equipped to fly well.

Set a pitch curve as follows (assuming your TX has a 5-point curve):

0 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 100.

This will give you full negative pitch setting at low stick, a big, wide flat spot at mid stick, and a full positive pitch setting at high stick.

-----

Set all trims to ZERO, set your collective stick SOMEWHERE in the big flat 50% flat spot.

In this condition, your servos should be centered, and referring to your Raptor 30 manual, set your linkages and servo arms as prescribed. This will be your ZERO degree collective pitch setting.

At this point, the swash plate will be level, and it should be centered in its up/down travel path on the main shaft. Adjust your links to make this happen. The mixing levers between the swash and rotor head assembly should be horizontal. Adjust the long links going from the swash plate up to the mixing levers up on the flybar to get ZERO degrees of pitch in the main rotor blades.

The Raptor you have is a non-CCPM heli, so linkage setup should be a snap as you have a single servo controlling collective travel, aileron travel, and elevator travel.

-----

With the mechanical setup as above, you should now be able to check your full negative collective pitch value, and your full positive collective pitch value simply by moving the stick to its low position and its high position. If the mechanical setup is done properly, you should be able to see equal amounts of positive and negative pitch.

I would shoot for a pitch range of -10 to +10 degrees (the 28 might have some trouble with this, however) overall.

-----

With all of the above taken care of, using your pitch gauge, set your NORMAL mode pitch range to -2 degrees at low stick, +6 degrees at mid-stick, and +9 degrees at full stick.

Set your Normal mode throttle curve to be a 0 to 100% straight line for now.

With this setting, you should be hovering at about 3/4 throttle with plenty of head speed, the motor should be well within its power band, and your heli will be more responsive and easier to fly. If you find it is too responsive, add some EXPONENTIAL into your aileron and elevator channels to flatten the system response around neutral. If you have JR/Spektrum radio, that would be POSITIVE EXPO (maybe 25-30%). If you have a Futaba radio, that would be NEGATIVE EXPO.

-----

As for your IDLE UP settings, that is a matter of personal choice, and has a lot to do with where you are in the learning curve.

If you take a look through many heli build instructions, they usually recommend throttle and pitch settings for Normal mode, and at least two Idle Up settings.

These usually include (low, middle, and full stick positions):

A -2, +6, +9 degree pitch curve coupled with a linear 0 to 100% throttle curve for Normal Mode;

A -6, +6, +9 degree pitch curve coupled with an odd looking throttle curve (something like 60%, 50%, 100%) for Idle Up 1;

And a -10, 0, + 10 degree pitch curve coupled with a throttle curve of 100, 70, 100 for Idle Up 2.

The Throttle Hold pitch curve usually is set identical to the Idle Up 2 curve. This is typical of what you would find for a nitro heli setup in the build manuals.

-----

As you get more advanced, you may find yourself gravitating to having your Idle Up 1, Idle Up 2, and throttle Hold pitch curves set identical to each other, the only difference between the three modes being your throttle curves.

-----

If you use a governor, even the throttle curves become less important, as you'll simply set your governor to maintain a constant head speed regardless of throttle setting, allowing the governor to control head speed based on head loading. You may choose a different head speed for Idle Up 1 and Idle Up 2.

You will still set some form of basic throttle curve for each flight mode in the event your governor fails during flight (you lose a magnet, a sensor croaks...) as a backup to get you down safely without over speeding the motor.

-----

Values for pitch and throttle setting in this post ought to get you flying well. They may not be optimal, but after you figure out this whole heli thing, you can adjust to your personal skill level and flying style.

-----

I typically take off in Normal mode and make sure everything is behaving correctly, then switch up into Idle up 2 and do all my flying there.

For nitro helis, I typically land with an autorotation, for electric helis, I'll make my approach to a very low tail-in hover, hit throttle hold, and do a baby-auto. Either way the motor is at idle (nitro) or OFF (electric) and the main rotors are allowed to spin to a stop.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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12-31-2013 12:58 AM  4 years agoPost 38
adh1000

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coral springs,florida.usa

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very precise instructions, follow this and you wont go wrong, one of the best setup instructions I have seen ,well done for taking the time, I applaud you sir

logo 480 , ikon
oxy 3 , ikon
Gaui x5 ,(?)
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12-31-2013 05:31 AM  4 years agoPost 39
raptorapture

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Singapore

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The Master
dkshema is truly a master, rrMaster to be precise at explaining things and probably flying too!

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12-31-2013 06:13 AM  4 years agoPost 40
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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It appears that, for the time being, the OS28 has been shelved, and an OS 32 is now in the power plant role.

If this is an OS 32 SX-H, your Raptor will be much happier, it's a decent motor, fairly easy to tune. If it's the ABN version, it's also very easy to roast the motor with incorrect carb settings, the ringed version is a bit more forgiving, but you need to know that the low speed needle interacts with the high speed needle over a fairly wide throttle range. It is not uncommon to get the low speed needle too lean, resulting in a high speed needle setting that will lead to rapid leaning of the motor once you get close to full throttle.

Also, some early OS 32 SX-H motors made it to the US with a 3S carburetor installed. The later ones all had the 20C carb, a MUCH better carb than the 3H ever was. The body of the 20C is square, the body of the 3H is more roundish. I hope you have the 20C carb, the 3H will limit power and may cause other problems.

Good luck, the key to a good flying heli is proper setup. Take the time, do it right, go fly.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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