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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › IDLE UP1
12-27-2013 03:42 AM  4 years agoPost 1
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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think Ive been missing something and checking to see how many here fly in idle up1 aka higher head speed.
Seems to me the blades act like a wing so the faster their going around the more lift generated.

I banged my model in couple times and was using normal mode " as I always do"
hovering low to the ground around 1/3 throttle,I lost oreintation by then was too late to pull out of it so I hit the deck.thierfor am thinking a higher HS or idleup1 and it wouldn't have happened

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-27-2013 03:51 AM  4 years agoPost 2
wrongler

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Brewerton, New York

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Once I'm off the ground its in idle up 1.

Bill Whittaker

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12-27-2013 03:53 AM  4 years agoPost 3
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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so in other words if I used a governor or a higher HS it wouldn't have happened, that sound right?

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-27-2013 03:55 AM  4 years agoPost 4
whoamis

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san francisco, ca

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With collective pitch, more headspeed only translates to more lift at the same blade pitch. On fixed pitch it would mean "See ya!"

Learn to fly idle up. It's just a better overall experience and is a necessary habit before doing any aerobatics or interesting sport flying.

I only use a normal-mode type curve when I'm first trying a new heli out and want to see it go round and round slowly.

After that, all three modes are (governed) flat curves.

Learn to love headspeed... it is your very best friend and will love you back many times over.

oops, bounced it!

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12-27-2013 04:25 AM  4 years agoPost 5
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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For me, Normal is only to get off the ground and then back on. At touchdown, I hit TH, then go to bottom collective when the blades have spooled down.
Idle-up 1 or 2 the rest of the time. All three modes are governed.

Wayne

I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman

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12-27-2013 04:57 AM  4 years agoPost 6
Craigdieslemac

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Valdosta, Ga USA

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I rarely use normal mode.. I level my blades with TH on.. Flip to idle up.. Then TH off. Soft start ensures a slow spool up. I land in idle up and hit TH.. Spool down, flip to normal and bottom collective.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

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12-27-2013 12:08 PM  4 years agoPost 7
Retired2011

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Lee's Summit, MO

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^^^Exactly how I do it!^^^

Chet

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12-27-2013 12:31 PM  4 years agoPost 8
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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I takeoff and land in "normal" mode, at all other times it is idle2. Some guys don't even program a normal mode in the radio to avoid inverted crashes due to normal mode and only use throttle hold.

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12-27-2013 12:34 PM  4 years agoPost 9
adh1000

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coral springs,florida.usa

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I take off every time in normal, for me its a check to make sure things are ok, once in the air I go into iu1 and finish the flight with a mini auto, its a good habit to get into . if there are any problems then bringing the throttle down all the way will kill the motor quicker than I can hit throttle hold any way, iu1 and iu2 on my setup are governed , normal is not, i'm sure everyone that flies sport or above has at some point flipped inverted in normal and wondering what has happened auto'ed or crashed, I know I've done it twice in my 3 year heli career.
one last thing you said you were hovering at about 1/3 throttle, this doesn't seem like the normal way of doing things(in my mind anyway), what does your throttle and pitch curve look like? , I only ask because I don't want you to have a tough time switching into iu1, if you have your heli setup like the majority (again in my mind anyway) of people that would put you into higher headspeed with negative pitch which would be scary the first time you tried it,

logo 480 , ikon
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logo 550sx ,v bar

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12-27-2013 12:42 PM  4 years agoPost 10
meowguy

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Saco, ME

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It's a really good idea to lean how to do this properly. A mentor would be a great help to you. Have you tried to find one?

"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor

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12-27-2013 01:08 PM  4 years agoPost 11
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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think Ive been missing something and checking to see how many here fly in idle up1 aka higher head speed.
Seems to me the blades act like a wing so the faster their going around the more lift generated.
I banged my model in couple times and was using normal mode " as I always do"
hovering low to the ground around 1/3 throttle,I lost oreintation by then was too late to pull out of it so I hit the deck.thierfor am thinking a higher HS or idleup1 and it wouldn't have happened
I fly FPV exclusively now, so for various reasons I fly in normal mode only and never use my idle-up modes.

One hazard with a flat throttle curve in an IU mode, especially when FPV where you can't see your transmitter or the rotor disk, is during landing. Often on set down you need to lower the collective immediately to plant the machine - very bad things can happen if you do this in an IU mode. Full power + full negative pitch + on the ground == quite spectacular end to your flying day.

Fumbling with switches that you can't see can be a real problem when FPV, unless you extensively practice it by feel and get a "muscle memory" and mental checklist going to prevent a catastrophe. I've just found it much simpler to use one mode all the time.

Also, higher head speed means a lot more stored kinetic energy in the rotor. That's both good and bad - it's good if power konks out at a low altitude, it's bad if you're looking for good efficiency (eg. long flight times) and/or happen to land in IU and drop the collective out of habit as I talked about above.

When I flew line-of-sight, tho, I did setup one IU mode and used that after takeoff. Still I never landed in IU; it was a mental checklist item to switch to normal mode before my approach....

Anyway, my thoughts from a different perspective...

LS

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12-27-2013 02:00 PM  4 years agoPost 12
Andy from Sandy

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Bedfordshire, UK

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It might be useful if the OP and others posted what the model type is.

For me electric generally requires a flat curve, as the ESC is providing a governed head speed, to do anything but a nitro can be flown with a linear curve or a v curve when not using a governor.

For electric I allow the esc to do its slow start in IU on the ground. I always fly in IU as this keeps the model "flying" at all pitch angles with full control.

For nitro when using a linear curve sees the model falling rather than flying down when wanting to land or descending. In windy conditions this makes flying very difficult, IMO. I think we have all been there with the model dropping and adding pitch which increases throttle and head speed is actually quite hard to control. Also with the slowing of the head speed sees the model lose its responsiveness and creates panic as you start over correcting.

With a v-curve or governed head speed keeps full control in the model and for me allows for the slowest of descents when coming into land.

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12-27-2013 02:56 PM  4 years agoPost 13
rcflyerheli

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Granbury, TX USA

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I don't think orientation issues will be solved solely by higher headspeeds. That being said, if hovering is all you are doing, then normal mode will work just fine.

However if you are into acro, with an electric, low stick position is usually a backup to your throttle hold, and stops the motor. You sure don't want that to inadvertently happen while doing acro.

Also normal curves for nitro are usually setup to give gradual acceleration to the motor as you start your spoolup. With electrics ESC softstart functions do this for you, so it isn't totally necessary to spin up the heli in normal.

Once your heli gets spun up, IU is usually set up to a higher headspeed, but it doesn't have to be, but more importantly, it is designed to provide a constant headspeed for the heli (usually for acro.

For me, I personally engage hold and normal-low stick when plugging in my packs. Then for takeoff, I leave hold engaged, bring the collective to just under half stick, and then flip to IU and then disengage hold, let the softstart get the blades up to speed and then take off.

For landing, I do a mini auto and bring the collective down to negative pitch to hold the heli down while it is spinning down.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
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12-27-2013 05:25 PM  4 years agoPost 14
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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I don't have all the details, but based on what you've said, it may be that your Normal mode HS might be set too low. As a general rule, I like to set my HS in normal to about 65%-80% power on a straight curve. And about 85%-90%+ for ST1 and ST2 for my e-heli. This will usually get me about 1700-1800 in Normal, and about 1900-2100rpms respectively for e-models.

For Nitros, I set my rev limiter/or gov so that I'm pulling about 1750 in Normal, 1850 in ST1 and 1950 in ST2. These numbers are adjusted as required to optimize perfomance without over taxing the engine and head limitations. Also, I set my pitch and throttle curves to match in all modes so that I can switch back and forth in flight without have to worry about a dramatic changes in attitude during the mode switches. In other words, I can switch between modes without the swash moving at any position...only RPMs change.

But, in all honesty, it seems more like a training issue than a setup problem...from what I've read and assuming that your setup is correct, you just simply need more stick time to refine your orientation flying. Do you have any more details as to what started just before you crashed your model?

Mellisa

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12-27-2013 05:37 PM  4 years agoPost 15
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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Quote> It's a really good idea to lean how to do this properly. A mentor would be a great help to you. Have you tried to find one?

have always been self taught but would love to find some one on one assistance around this area!

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-27-2013 05:52 PM  4 years agoPost 16
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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thanx for the reasonable responses.........BTW am flying a nitro rap 30 amongst other 30 size gassers, futher more I donot have any problem hovering,nose in, 8s or circuts so am far from being a newbie in that sense, now that's cleared up the only thing am concerned about learning about this idleup/HS thing and believe itll clear up alotta problems

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12-27-2013 06:42 PM  4 years agoPost 17
rcflyerheli

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Granbury, TX USA

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thanx for the reasonable responses.........BTW am flying a nitro rap 30 amongst other 30 size gassers, futher more I donot have any problem hovering,nose in, 8s or circuts so am far from being a newbie in that sense, now that's cleared up the only thing am concerned about learning about this idleup/HS thing and believe itll clear up alotta problems
Another thing that struck me as I reread your original post, you said you were hovering at about 1/3 throttle. I'm not sure what type of flying you are ultimately aiming at, but 1/3 stick seems really low for normal flying. This makes it sound like you have very high pitch on your blades, or an extremely high headspeed.

You can set your pitch and throttle curves for various different flight operations, but since I've been doing this part of the hobby, the conventional setup has been to set your blade pitch curve from 0 to 100 or -100 to 100 depending on make of transmitter, so that at mid stick you will be at the center of the pitch travel. Then set your blade pitch to zero at that setting. Thus when you are flying you will be at slightly above mid stick for hovering.

If hovering and A/P functions are all you will be doing, then it doesn't need to be set up as I just suggested, as that is a basic setup so you can have negative pitch for inverted flying. If you intend to get into acro then I would suggest to go ahead and set up the heli for that type of flying, so that you get used to the hovering or neutral position of your stick.

Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

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12-27-2013 06:56 PM  4 years agoPost 18
Heli_Splatter

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USA

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If you have any plans or intentions to fly even a simple aileron roll, the sooner you practice flipping switch into idle up, the better. Make the habit on the sim.

If you don't get used to it, you are going to plant one. I set up all my birds to hover at mid stick by playing with throttle and pitch curves. I also try to make a smooth transition from normal to idleup1 and then idleup2. I don't want a huge jump in power as the switch is changed.

To this point, I am not using governed headspeeds on my electric helis.

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12-27-2013 07:12 PM  4 years agoPost 19
BENTDABOOM

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west seattle

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last 2 post were well taken, most prolly don't know I use old school P curves like -1+6+9 T curve 0-35-60-80-100,laugh if ya want but this is the only way Ive flown after all these years,it doesn't bother me but would like to investigate and try this idleup business........o
splatter>>>>>> doing real good with switches on the sim and practice every day both autos and idleup, we all know the real thing is way different not too mention costly! were workin on it.

CAUTION!!! politicians may be hazerdous to your well being

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12-27-2013 07:19 PM  4 years agoPost 20
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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The "modern" flight setup uses a linear - straight - line for the collective pitch "curve".
* At full down stick, the line starts at 0 (or -100).
* At mid-stick, the line is at 50 (or 0)
* At full up stick, the line is at 100 (or +100).

At full down stick, you typically see -10 or -11 degrees of collective pitch.
At mid-stick you would have 0 degrees
At full up you would have +10 or +11
-11, 0, +11
or...
-13, 0, +13

With a governor, you pick a head speed and it will manage the throttle to maintain the HS as the collective pitch changes.

I start the motor with the Throttle Hold engaged - that way I know it will be idling and I'll be okay if the collective stick is bumped around. The gov has a "throttle up" ramp setting that allows an adjustable spin-up from idle to "Norm" head speed. Otherwise, the transition from T-hold to Norm would rip the heli apart.

In "Norm" flight mode, I set the gov to 1650 for my Trex 600N. This is 30% on the throttle curve (which sets the HS in the gov).
This is my "take off" RPM and I can fly for about 10 min using gentle inputs. This is fun and a great way to teach collective management. If you "stick bang", then you run out of collective and funny things happen.
I set FS1 (IdleUp 1) to 2000 RPM
I set FS2 (IdleUp 2) to 2150.

The higher head speed makes the heli react faster. Meaning, if you screw up, it hits harder and sooner than a slower head speed.

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