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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › DS92a+ causing brownouts?
12-15-2013 04:20 AM  5 years ago
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Rotormaster

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DS92a+ causing brownouts?
So I have equipped my T450 with new MKS DS92a+ servos on cyclic. Now it seems that they are drawing more current than the BEC (CC ice 50) can provide, because when I bang on the sticks (on throttle hold) it only takes about 4 seconds for the satellite to shut down for about a second before reconnecting. Of course when this happens, I will lose control of all servos until the FBL reinitializes.

Anybody know what these servos are meant to draw? I couldn't find this information on the MKS website. And what do I have to do now? Install a peripheral BEC to power them?
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12-15-2013 06:01 AM  5 years ago
AWittleWabbit

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I recently switched to those from Airtronics 94809s. I too, did the stick bang test and got a reset. It took a lot but it happened. This was on a YGE 60 internal bec.

I switched to a castle 10amp bec. At the same time, I raised the voltage to 6v. No amount of stick banging will cause a reset now.

I don't know the current draw of the ds92a+ but the YGE 60 has a 5amp bec. There is probably a momentary (mS) drop that triggers the reset.

I kind of winged the bec selection. I don't think the Castle bec is rated for 10amps on 6s. But who knows, there may be a capacitor on the output of the Castle bec. I had it handy, I could hide it in the frame of the 450Pro, and it passed the stick banging test.

I used to fly the Pro with a Jazz 40 and it's mighty 3 amp bec. It flew fine until I cranked up the cyclic gains and had a nasty porpoising (sp?). It promptly browned out along with my underwear. I was lucky, it landed skids down in tall grass.

In short, I wouldn't skimp on the bec. I would size for an out of tune condition e.g., porposing or bobbles as the servos really draw current then. A solid 10a would be a good start.
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12-15-2013 11:15 AM  5 years ago
ZS-JAF

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I have seen the same thing on 2 of my helis not this size or servo but same symptoms time to upgrade to separate BEC. Not what you or I want but better safe than sorry.I have a 3D heli, I don't understand why it doesn't do 3D.
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12-16-2013 02:09 AM  5 years ago
Rotormaster

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It promptly browned out along with my underwear.
Lol.

Thanks for the reply, guys.
So is the CC 10 amp BEC small enough for the 450? The Hobbywing that I have on my X5 is only 8 amp, and the damn thing is nearly as big as the ESC!

On another note, if the tiny micro servos on my 450 are maxing out the built in 5 amp BEC, am I safe running my X5 on only 8 amps??
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12-16-2013 02:29 AM  5 years ago
AWittleWabbit

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The castle 10 bec fits under mast and gears in between the frames pretthat servos you are using on the x5 but the stick bang test on the bench seems to be a pretty good indicator if it is up to task or not. I think there is a very high peak draw when reversing direction.

Mikado did some testing/improvement on the YGE90LV for the Logo 550sx. They have o'scope screen shots of v droop. It has a 6 amp cont 12amp peak bec. They use a big capacitor on the output so the v droop is not enough to cause a reset.
http://www.vstabi.info/en/node/1444

So without knowing what exact bec it is, YMMV. I wish all manufacturers would include this sort of data.
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12-16-2013 02:48 AM  5 years ago
Rotormaster

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I'm running the stock servos on the X5 (gs501 or something?) And a Hobbywing 10 amp BEC. I've done the stick bang test on the bench with no issues, but I presume it's not quite the same as when I bang the sticks in the air with a ton of load on the blades... That's what has me a little worried.

I've just converted this thing to 12S, and for some unknown issue I'm lacking power at the moment, so no smacking the sticks yet. But a reset is the last thing I want when this thing is sorted and running on full song on 12S power.
Lest I have a brownout in a quite literal sense.
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12-16-2013 04:43 AM  5 years ago
AWittleWabbit

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Lest I have a brownout in a quite literal sense.

Before I decided on the YGE combo, I was going to size the bec on the overkill side just for piece of mind. Slightly too big wouldn't hurt.
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12-16-2013 11:28 AM  5 years ago
Rotormaster

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Point taken.

Cheers.
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12-16-2013 02:00 PM  5 years ago
Richardmid1

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The problem is the single BEC lead to the RX and connection only rated for around 3 amps continuous! So it doesn't matter how much the BEC can handle, if you don't double up on the BEC leads you will have problems when running power hungry servos (the micro MKS use oversize motors which is why the specs are so good).

If it is the ICE Edge Lite 50 you can select the BEC output voltage from 5 - 8.4v, if it defaults to 6v you might want to try changing it to 5v so the servos don't draw so much current.

This is one of the reasons Kontronik Jive BEC's are so good, because you get 2 BEC leads to feed the RX.
60% of the time, it works every time!
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12-16-2013 03:22 PM  5 years ago
colsy

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I remember that there is (was) a compatibility problem with the original ICE range of ESC'S with there inbuilt bec's and the MKS DS95'S AND 92'S A+ servos.

Im sure it was addressed, but you'll have to check.

Almost impossible that any 450 can peak 5 amp of any bec really.

That would mean all 3 cyclic servos would have to stalled at over 1 amp each, plus the rest of the electronics.

col.
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12-17-2013 08:57 AM  5 years ago
Rotormaster

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The problem is the single BEC lead to the RX and connection only rated for around 3 amps continuous! So it doesn't matter how much the BEC can handle, if you don't double up on the BEC leads you will have problems when running power hungry servos (the micro MKS use oversize motors which is why the specs are so good).
So how do you double up the BEC receiver lead??
if it defaults to 6v you might want to try changing it to 5v so the servos don't draw so much current.
Are you sure you don't have that backwards? When I set it to 5V I literally just have to move the collective once and the sat will have a reset. At 6.5V I have to bang the sticks around for a good 2-3 secs before it occurs. Just like switching from a 6S power system to a 12S power system, the increase in voltage will result in the helicopter pulling less amps to achieve the same power output.
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12-17-2013 09:08 AM  5 years ago
Richardmid1

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No I don't have it backwards and I have no idea why you are seeing those results!

Imagine going to higher voltage on your heli without changing the motor or gearing! Get the idea?

It's the same reason kontronik recommend a buffer pack when adjusting the bec voltage from 5.6 to 6v, the servos will draw more current.
60% of the time, it works every time!
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12-17-2013 09:09 AM  5 years ago
Rotormaster

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I remember that there is (was) a compatibility problem with the original ICE range of ESC'S with there inbuilt bec's and the MKS DS95'S AND 92'S A+ servos.
So it seems that there is still an issue... Even though I updated the software quite recently.
You are definitely right that no micro servos should peak a 5 amp bec with just one movement of the collective. There is definitely something wrong here.

This NEVER happened with the stock ds410m servos. The only thing I changed when I swapped them over was increase the BEC output from 5V to 6V. Maybe the easiest thing would be to just sell these and by another ds410m. Oh... They don't seem them anymore.
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12-17-2013 09:14 AM  5 years ago
Rotormaster

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Imagine going to higher voltage on your heli without changing the motor or gearing! Get the idea?
Oops... You are right, i didn't take into account the fact that the gearing on the servos remains the same.

Either way, I am still getting real world results that are backwards! (Why do I fly helis??)
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12-17-2013 09:24 AM  5 years ago
colsy

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If you pop over to the other site, you will find a few threads on youre problem!
Some were still complaining that the update worked on 95 and 92, but not the 92a+, i can only assume it's a resistance issue with the servo drive circuit but that's a guess.

The RX connectors have always been a bottle neck in supplying power to the rx bus, although rated at 5 amps (i assume 4.8v), that's in the hope the two power pins have a perfect contact with the surface area?

As a matter of course i have always split the power wires to the rx, and just added however many extra that is needed to fill all the spare port's on the rx of any particular model.

The more connectors that are plugged into the rx bus @ voltage potential carrying current, leaves less chance of ohmic contact problems and adds to redundancy!!

Simply splice into youre rx supply batt or bec output leads and solder as many extra servo plugs on that fill all available slots on youre rx bus.

col.
Only Quote From Experience.
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12-17-2013 09:54 AM  5 years ago
Richardmid1

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Good idea Col.

You could also solder a second lead onto the board in the ESC if you are good at soldering and don't mind the warranty being void that way you are not only doubling up the plug connection to the RX but the wire also.

There could always be a fault with one of the servos making it draw too much current, you could try unplugging one servo at a time and each time see how easy it is to make the RX brown out.

The other thing is tight links or binding causing the BEC to work pretty hard before you have even moved the sticks?
60% of the time, it works every time!
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12-17-2013 10:03 AM  5 years ago
esmoglo

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Florida USA

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When I had my Warp 360 I used the Kontronik Koby 55 ESC and ran the internal BEC with the same MKS servos it would brown out. I switched the BEC to the Castle small 10A ran my 6S packs with no issues never had a brown out again. Don’t think the Koby 55 was worth the money to be honest felt like I got ripped off. Perhaps the MKS servos are a bit power hungry?Ugly can be fixed stupid is forever!
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12-17-2013 10:10 AM  5 years ago
Richardmid1

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Ah hang on a minute, are we talking a 6s 450 here Rotormaster?

Maybe you don't actually get 5 amp BEC with 6s input, maybe you only get the 5 amp with 3s input?
60% of the time, it works every time!
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12-17-2013 10:14 AM  5 years ago
Richardmid1

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Ok scratch that I think I got something, from CC:
**Peak indicates amperage sustainable for 0.5 seconds
So the 5 amp is a PEAK rating NOT continuous and even then only for 0.5 seconds!!

Get a seperate BEC buddy!

Gryphon Polaris 30V 10A Mini BEC GSR-3030 is awesome!
60% of the time, it works every time!
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12-17-2013 11:51 AM  5 years ago
Rotormaster

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Australia

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Sorry mate, that's just way too much wanking around for a bit of flying here and there. If it came to that, I would honestly prefer to source some ds410s, even if used. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your help, but I got into this hobby to fly the darn things not to wank about on the bench.
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › DS92a+ causing brownouts?
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