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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Removing my header tank.
12-12-2013 06:34 AM  5 years ago
YSRRider

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usa

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YSRRider You think heavier is better?
I think you should stop wasting your time trying to be innovative and just fly the ****ing helicopter. Aside from making sure its properly trimmed/tuned/setup, there is nothing you can do to it that will make YOU a better pilot. Just fly it.
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12-12-2013 06:37 AM  5 years ago
YSRRider

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usa

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What is your logic behind wanting to make the helicopter lighter? What will that do for you?
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12-12-2013 07:50 AM  5 years ago
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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I flew my Raptor 90 and Trex 600 with header tanks.

I took the header tank off of my Trex 600 and it flew fine - I didn't notice any difference in performance or "gulping air" - for the first 95% of fuel burned

And, I did notice is that I have run out of fuel 3 times in 10 flights.

My timer is set to 6 min, and I would normally land with a little fuel in the main and the header tank full.

Now, when the timer goes off - I need to be on the ground ASAP. And I have to be a little gentle about the maneuvers in the last 30 seconds.
I used to hear the timer and come in for a close hover - if I saw pink in the main, I would do a full collective climb out followed by a long auto to a landing.
If I try that now, the engine dies 1/2 way up to altitude (about 500'.
It's still an auto, but not the way I like to do it.

BTW: There is no way on God's green earth you are going to get 1 lbs (16 oz) out of a Raptor 50, unless you convert it to a glider (no engine). That 453 grams.

One "liquid ounce" of fuel weighs about 1 ounce. The header tank itself adds 1/2 more ounces - that's 2 1/2 oz weight. That is about 70 grams for a full header tank.

Good luck.
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12-12-2013 07:56 AM  5 years ago
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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What is your logic behind wanting to make the helicopter lighter? What will that do for you?
Honestly?

If it is a serious question, then:
*Lighter helis use less fuel,
*They react to controls faster
*Have a better "power to weight" ratio for climbing and acceleration
*They stop faster with less "overshoot"

Overall, any aircraft is better if it is lighter.

They also make a smaller hole in the ground when they hit.
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12-12-2013 10:35 AM  5 years ago
datidun

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N Ireland

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In theory without a header tank or a fuel magnet one will not have continues fuel flow to the engine with a standard clunk,just hovering about yes,but flying 3d that clunk is flying around the main tank like crazy missing out on fuel suction.
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12-12-2013 10:59 AM  5 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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In theory without a header tank or a fuel magnet one will not have continues fuel flow to the engine with a standard clunk,just hovering about yes,but flying 3d that clunk is flying around the main tank like crazy missing out on fuel suction.
BOOM! As the OP asked about 3D specifically, this is the right answer.

[/quote]my nx4 has a header tank, last weekend the main tanks clunk line had a small tear, main tank was 50% full and the header was 90+ % full,
motor flamed out.[quote]

Im not sure why it flamed out if your header was 90+% full?? Did you mean the other way round and your header was 50% full because of the tear in the main tank clunk line?

^^^this leads me onto what I was about to say actually, if you run a header tank it will show you if you have an air leak in the main tank line because the header will start emptying. Without the header tank the engine will go lean and it maybe too late!

Onto weight saving, on a 50 and 90 the header tank isn't noticable and in any case you have more fuel so if you are bothered about weight just don't fill the tank as much!! On an NX4 you barely get any longer flight time than an electric without a header tank! (and if you run a header tank on an NX4 it will make the already nose heaviness worse and you will need to add weight to the nose which then makes it a very heavy heli for its disc size and flys like a pig!) (Great job Bobby but with a bigger main gear and pinion the motor cold sit further forward and even have the tank under the main shaft! Mr. Botos beat you to that one on the N7!)
60% of the time, it works every time!
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12-12-2013 01:08 PM  5 years ago
Dan Minick

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Columbus, WI

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Something tells me the weight of a 2oz header tank on a N5C is insignificant.
alone your probably about right, but i also went to HV and an all in one power bus/glow ignition. so im minus a BEC,Glow box,bulky Hd power switch, and the header tank. those are 4.7 oz alone over what the new unit weighs. i also think the shaved a little big of weight going to an OS powerboost 2 vs the Hatori pipe. so subtract the 1.5oz or so for the weight of fuel not in my header tank. My N5C TT with 2700 mah lipo weighs 8lbs 4oz RTF minus a tank of fuel. my weight savings over my last N5C is around 5-6oz. thats quite a bit of weight savings. every little bit adds up. now if you were to be running an external gov and switched to say the vbar internal just adds to the weight savings.
Team Synergy, Team FBL Rotors-------if its not broke...it will be!
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12-12-2013 01:28 PM  5 years ago
jake21

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ontario canada

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YSRRider. No one said I wanted to be a better pilot. I have 4 other raptors that I fly a lot. When I am done I will have removed one pound from this helicopter and I think everyone will agree that it will perform better. My question was about the clunk line and not a pissing match about what a header tank weighs. You keep flying your
XXXXING helis the way you want and I will do what I want. I dont believe there is any rules for My hobby.
The only way to not crash is up
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12-12-2013 02:42 PM  5 years ago
meowguy

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Saco, ME

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meowguy. sorry I am useless and YOU are GREAT.
Please do not read words that were not written. I was referring to the useless things in aviation, not you. I admire your desire to lighten the load.

Sorry if you took offense.
"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor
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12-12-2013 03:15 PM  5 years ago
Nasty1

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Enf,Ct-USA

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LOL Rich, your correct for sure, it does fly like a pig,

I call it a brick. thats why it's my practice machine.

my header was still 90% full, I don't hover the heli, it's a beater.
it must have gotten a small air pocket= lights out
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12-12-2013 03:35 PM  5 years ago
jake21

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ontario canada

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meowguy. I am sorry as this was not intended for You.It was for the rocket scientist YSRRider.The only way to not crash is up
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12-13-2013 01:31 AM  5 years ago
YSRRider

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usa

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Honestly?

If it is a serious question, then:
*Lighter helis use less fuel,
*They react to controls faster
*Have a better "power to weight" ratio for climbing and acceleration
*They stop faster with less "overshoot"

Overall, any aircraft is better if it is lighter.

They also make a smaller hole in the ground when they hit.
Its a plastic helicopter, how much lighter can it get????? Do you think the engineers and mfg that probably have a few million dollars in R&D didnt do everything they could at the time? The Raptor was the most innovative helicopter when it came out. Simple, light, easy to setup, cheap to crash.... You really cant make it any better other than upgrade for a more experienced pilot. BUT, there ARE better helicopters out there now as technology has progressed so essentially you are just trying to polish a turd.
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12-13-2013 01:36 AM  5 years ago
YSRRider

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usa

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YSRRider. No one said I wanted to be a better pilot. I have 4 other raptors that I fly a lot. When I am done I will have removed one pound from this helicopter and I think everyone will agree that it will perform better. My question was about the clunk line and not a pissing match about what a header tank weighs. You keep flying your
XXXXING helis the way you want and I will do what I want. I dont believe there is any rules for My hobby.
Please post all mods that subtracted one pound.

I still think its 100% pointless but whatever.

Do you mod the frames for more pitch range to fully utilize the weight change?
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12-13-2013 01:58 AM  5 years ago
jake21

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ontario canada

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If You knew anything about raptors you would know that the X50 flybarless head can produce 15 degrees of pitch.
3 ounces off of landing gear.
3 ounces off of frame.
4 ounces off of battery. Went HV.
4 ounces for fbl head.
1 ounce for header tank.
1 ounce for no switch.
3 ounces for canopy.
2 ounces for all other mods.
I have a company that is called Jakes innovative Technologies that has done well for me in the diamond drilling industry.I hope that investing other peoples money has done as good for you.
I was hoping for 1 pound but got a little better.
The only way to not crash is up
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12-13-2013 02:05 AM  5 years ago
jschenck

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La Vista, NE.

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1 ounce for header tank.
3 oz if you count the fuel that goes in it
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12-13-2013 02:08 AM  5 years ago
jake21

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ontario canada

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I am trying to be conservative.The only way to not crash is up
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12-13-2013 02:10 AM  5 years ago
jake21

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ontario canada

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It was alot of Hobbying.The only way to not crash is up
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12-14-2013 08:22 PM  5 years ago
YSRRider

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usa

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I dont know much of anything, I'm just here to make friends and look at pictures.
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12-14-2013 09:57 PM  5 years ago
jake21

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ontario canada

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Its all good and I am here for about the same reasons.The only way to not crash is up
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01-02-2014 02:27 PM  5 years ago
datidun

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N Ireland

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Ok I took my header off and experimented a bit more,in the main tank I used a heavier cone shape clunk with very flexible tubing,the rule being trying to get the Clunk to chase the fuel so is meets up in almost all four corners,so that's OK,but when the tank is turned to the left the clunk is out of the fuel based on below half a tank of fuel which is not good,when the tank is turned to the right its well in the fuel because the Grommet is on the right side,so either will I run lean when doing a left roll or will get away by adding a bubbles fuel filter,or do the right thing and put the Header back on.
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Removing my header tank.
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