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11-02-2013 02:37 PM  4 years agoPost 21
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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JR has a unique mounting system, they made a steel plate that mounts to the exhaust port and also to the crank case. Its completely isolated to the engine

the muffler then mounts at four points to the steel plate. Its pretty quiet but I don't have any performance comparisons. The entire assembly weighs just a bit over 14oz which is less than the RJX but more than most other gas mufflers

at todays exchange rate its about $280

Proprietor - Gas Powered Helicopters

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11-02-2013 03:29 PM  4 years agoPost 22
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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About the mufflers
Yes sure there are different ways to test engines, but to be honest the method I came up with is pretty simple and consistent in giving me results I need to see, and is available to any of us at the field.

When I tested a Hatori, RJX and Century v2 and v3 mufflers on my same helicopter that I'm trying to optimize, the v2 made the most power in the climbouts, and translated across the board to all sorts of flying, more power in fast forward flight, more power in ticktocs, etc, shown in less bogging or more freedom with the collective stick.

I understand there are other engines that need to run fast to make the power due to the high porting numbers, but those engines will not make power at lower speeds and you need to change the gearing to get them into the useful range that they have. With the amount of flying that I do - over 300 hrs this year so far, for me its my personal preference that I don't want to run those high speeds on my helis and/or on my engines because it causes more wear and tear on the machine and more vibrations which will lead to more maintenance and less hours in the air on the field. I'm very happy with the head speeds that I run, I get alot of pleasure out of running my machines. and so what if the headspeed is 10% less or say 1800-1900 instead of 1950 to 2100. I love to fly and I hate to crash so I try to keep it that way and stay away from that little extra performance that comes with the higher speeds to avoid that link popping off or a part breaking causing a crash.

Dynos are a luxury and really very very few people have access to them and then their results can be manipulated to show different things from what some folks have said. I have never tried using a dyno but if you're going by the Hatori showed making more power than the v2 on the dyno well that doesn't translate to real life for me on the field. Trust me if it did I'd be the first here to say the Hatori makes the most power, it just didn't. Maybe the new one is different, but now the new one seems to be cracking (and that's too bad to be honest) whereas the old one I never heard of that.

The new JR muffler is SUPER quiet, I got to see it in flight and actually fly the new JR heli with that muffler and config. My God the thing almost sounds like an electric! I thought about trying one of those mufflers to see how they compare in power, but I'm not sure the extra mounting stuff would work on my whiplash or Spectra. I'd love to borrow one to give it a go before I'd spend the $280 to own it.

I gotta go pack up now and head to the field, two of my flying buddies plan to be there, one already there and I plan to meet the other at noon. Its gonna be a good day, sunshine, blue skies and low winds

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4220 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3310 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1618 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 473 flts

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11-02-2013 06:02 PM  4 years agoPost 23
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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Trust me if it did I'd be the first here to say the Hatori makes the most power, it just didn't.
for your setup. Other setups optimized for high performance may see different results.

I would agree that previous generations of gas helicopters didn't always tolerate vibration well

the new designs don't seem to have an issue with it. Anyway the engines that are designated to run high RPMs were all balanced with that RPM in mind. If they weren't modified to turn high RPMs, they won't be smooth.

regardless the way to entice more pilots to give gas helicopters a try is to show that not only can they get much longer flight times but overall performance thats good enough to keep them interested. High performance setups are what make that happen. Most of us who enjoy sport type flying have been flying gas helicopters for a very long time for the obvious reasons. The challenge is to convince more glow/nitro pilots that there's an alternative to the more expensive fuels without all the overhead and short flight times of high performance electric setups.

One of the reasons the JR muffler is so quiet at least on the GSR260 is that the model operates at a low head speed and is geared relatively tall. So the engines's only turning about 10K rpm

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11-03-2013 01:58 AM  4 years agoPost 24
geomecc

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Long Island ,NY

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WOWEE. chill fellas. anyways I'm pretty happy with penzoil full synthetic at 40:1 and the v2 muffler made more power than the v5 but was loud and rattley for my taste. I like the hatori cause it was close to the v2 but nice and quiet till I noticed the crack for my setup and geographical location. the scientific stuff with the dyno is in my opinion a basic guideline to which results with the end user may vary. thanks for the input raja and Carey and everyone else

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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11-03-2013 04:47 AM  4 years agoPost 25
geomecc

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Long Island ,NY

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sorry about the lack of punctuation in my previous post

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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11-03-2013 04:50 AM  4 years agoPost 26
geomecc

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Long Island ,NY

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[quote]JR has a unique mounting system, they made a steel plate that mounts to the exhaust port and also to the crank case. Its completely isolated to the engine

the muffler then mounts at four points to the steel plate. Its pretty quiet but I don't have any performance comparisons. The entire assembly weighs just a bit over 14oz which is less than the RJX but more than most other gas mufflers
at todays exchange rate its about $280
If you're not flying a gasoline helicopter
You're paying 10 times too much for fuel!!

Carey, that looks real nice i wonder about its performance on other helis or even on the jr sport gasser ( forgot the model name).

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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01-13-2014 05:40 AM  4 years agoPost 27
geomecc

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Long Island ,NY

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I finally got my hatori pipe back from being "repaired" and who ever rewelded the header didn't prep it properly (as in not cleaning the area inside before welding) and they couldn't have pressure tested it after. because the pipe was leaking around the weld 5 minits into a hover. now what?

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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01-13-2014 01:57 PM  4 years agoPost 28
rcnut

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Rockford, Illinois

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Damn

That's not good...! Why are the Hatoris cracking now??

-=>Raja.
Raja...and you thought it was MY motor that was causing the cracking! I guess I'm not the only one having this problem...

geomecc...find someone local that can re-weld your muffler. That's what I did and it works great. Well, until I crashed my gasser on the muffler side! 3 of us are using the Hatori muffler [Version 1], and Mark bought my last replacement [Version 2]. I am testing the Hong Kong RJX muffler. What to see how long it lasts. If it breaks, I'll have that one welded!

The new version 2 Hatori muffler is longer, but with the same thin weld around the header pipe. Mark bought a Whiplash gasser [which we finished installing and programming the electronics], it has the new V2 Hatori muffler. I will see how long this one will last as I have the honor or test flight and finish the break-in process.

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

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01-14-2014 02:02 AM  4 years agoPost 29
geomecc

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Long Island ,NY

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@rcnut this is the version 3 hatori with the 4 dampened mount bolts like their nitro pipes. i was expecting a better repair job especially with the amount of time it took. I thought hatori was better

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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01-15-2014 02:56 PM  4 years agoPost 30
rcnut

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Rockford, Illinois

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I'm sure this one will crack like all the others. I will see how well version 3 holds up this Sunday. The weather here is forecasted to be nice. So God willing, Sunday should be 33 degrees, 10 mph winds, with 23% cloud coverage. Mark and I (I) will maiden his heli with the new version 3 muffler.

Should it fail...I'll take pic's of the carnage and we shall have it re-welded, then it will be ok!

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

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01-17-2014 04:05 AM  4 years agoPost 31
geomecc

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Long Island ,NY

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i sent hatori pics of the cracks after the "repair" and they are sending me a new pipe. which is great. its good to see theres someone out there doin the right thing for their customer!

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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01-17-2014 04:06 AM  4 years agoPost 32
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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The big question is...
Now what are you going to do with it? Use it as a display muffler?

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4220 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3310 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1618 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 473 flts

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01-17-2014 04:07 AM  4 years agoPost 33
geomecc

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Long Island ,NY

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@rcnut uhh...who's mark

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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01-17-2014 04:10 AM  4 years agoPost 34
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Oh
Maybe version 3 is better, hopefully they fixed the cracking issue.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4220 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3310 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1618 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 473 flts

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01-18-2014 03:42 AM  4 years agoPost 35
geomecc

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Long Island ,NY

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rbort. that's a good question

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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01-18-2014 02:04 PM  4 years agoPost 36
rcnut

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Rockford, Illinois

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@rcnut uhh...who's mark
A good friend of mine that I'm teaching to fly. I hope to maiden his heli tomorrow providing the weather holds out. After Sunday, our weather here will fall back into the sub artic temps...below zero...for 6+ days! Yea, some people will venture out, but as a type 2 diabetic, I'll wait for warmer weather!

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

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01-19-2014 05:21 PM  4 years agoPost 37
sargentfly

rrNovice

IL

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No carnage allowed. Maiden will go perfectly.... I hope.

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01-19-2014 11:23 PM  4 years agoPost 38
mustang67ford

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Central Pennsylvania

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@sargentfly. I take it you are new to the hobby. Welcome to the hobby. That's something learning to fly on a gasser.

Team HeliProz - Retired
AMA #513507
IRCHA #4011

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01-20-2014 01:59 AM  4 years agoPost 39
sargentflyrrNovice - IL - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

hatori muffler question
No not new maybe overly optimistic. Today was the maiden all went well. Have some tuning and radio setup to do yet but all in all good day. Oh yeah just to stay on topic the new ver3 hatori muffler held up beautifuly to some mild 3d and a smooth auto. Thanks Ray.

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01-21-2014 02:16 AM  4 years agoPost 40
geomecc

rrKey Veteran

Long Island ,NY

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just keep an eye on it.

R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC

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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › hatori muffler question
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