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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Question...Tail sliding out...
10-23-2013 06:35 PM  5 years agoPost 1
BradNewman

rrApprentice

Orange, Tx-USA

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I'm flying trex 550 dfc w/ AR7200BX.
When I try to begin inverted backwards fast flight my tail slides out on me and I wind up just flying inverted nose first.
Could it be me just not giving it the right inputs, or maybe try turning the gain up a bit?
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance!

Remember to keep everything balanced!

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10-23-2013 07:19 PM  5 years agoPost 2
Funky Trex

rrElite Veteran

Westerville, OH - USA

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Which main/tail blades, what size are they and which tail servo are you running? How far out is the ball on your servo horn? What headspeed are you running? What is your gain set at (what type of radio)?

Is this a new build or just a new problem with a heli you have already been flying?

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10-23-2013 07:45 PM  5 years agoPost 3
devin120

rrVeteran

Canada

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Hard to say
If you don't know what inputs your giving its very hard dude to tell you if its you or the machine. get that figured out before anything.

If it's the machine that's pretty special. AR7200BX auto piro. Never had that issue but I don't run those kind of fbl systems.

But knowing align, if your running align tail srvo it could be on its way out. Did you have a crash recently, unit could be on its way out. Is their a function in the system to tell it which orientation your gyro is positioned? Does this happen in upright backwards flight also?

I don't see how gain could be the issue. My gain adjusts more its rigidity then how well it holds. It always holds dead on. I run different electronics though.

DC

Miniature Aircraft - OS power - Futaba electronics

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10-23-2013 07:54 PM  5 years agoPost 4
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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Are you running high headspeed or low headspeed? higher headspeed will help keep the tail in line. Could try bumping up the tail gain a bit if you have the gain room for that.

but I've found with tail first flight if I get too strong with collective or get the tail more than just slightly out of the straight backward airflow and the heli is moving really fast it'll blow the tail around. Need to work on keeping the tail in straight and easy on the collective.

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10-23-2013 07:56 PM  5 years agoPost 5
Travis MCH

rrApprentice

New Braunfels, Texas, USA

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A buddy of mine has the same 550 heli with the same FLB unit and it does the exact same thing during the same maneuver. I think some FLB units simply cannot keep up. I've heard this from other guys who then switched to a different brand like Vbar or Total G and never had the tail slide out again.
First try turning up the gain, then go to a larger tail blade, then replace the tail servo......eventually you will get it.

Good luck!

Fly every chance you get!

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10-23-2013 08:00 PM  5 years agoPost 6
Funky Trex

rrElite Veteran

Westerville, OH - USA

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I am running the 7200BX with 556/96 blades on my Align 550. I have never had the tail blow out on that heli. I usually run 2500 but even at 2200, the tail is rock solid with the longer tail blades through fast backwards hurricanes, funnels, tail slides, etc.

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10-24-2013 02:49 AM  5 years agoPost 7
BradNewman

rrApprentice

Orange, Tx-USA

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Thanks guys for all the input, I've got some good ideas from all of y'all!
M.B. 550mm
T.B. 85mm
T.S. Align ds620(I think) without looking
H.S. Not sure...I've the got the stock align esc, so no gov, but my guess is 2250 to 2300
TX 9503

Remember to keep everything balanced!

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10-24-2013 04:22 AM  5 years agoPost 8
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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AR7200BX and JR X9503. Out of curiosity, which channel in your transmitter is controlling rudder gyro gain and are you using the Gyro Sense menu of the 9503?

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-24-2013 04:59 AM  5 years agoPost 9
BradNewman

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Orange, Tx-USA

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I use Gear(ch5), and I use my travel adjust to change my gain. Does that sound correct?

Remember to keep everything balanced!

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10-24-2013 05:09 AM  5 years agoPost 10
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Just checking, the AR7200BX expects gyro gain control on channel 5. If you were using the Gyro Sense menu, you'd be having real trouble since the Gyro Sense menu works out of channel 7.

Using the Gear switch, channel 5 and the Gear travel adjust will do what you want it to do.

Sounds as if you have the right channel doing the job and you're controlling the gain correctly.

The Gear channel IS enabled in the Device Select menu, isn't it? Your choices are INH, ACT, and GOV. Should set set to ACT.

BTW -- if you ever get the urge to control gain using the Flight Mode Switch, you could set the GEAR option to GOV. Doing so would enable the Governor menu in the settings menu, and you could use the Governor set numbers in the Governor menu to control gains, as this all comes out on channel 5. This way you could have a separate gain for each flight mode as selected by the Flight Mode Switch.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-24-2013 05:18 AM  5 years agoPost 11
BradNewman

rrApprentice

Orange, Tx-USA

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Dave, thanks for the info, I didn't know that about the gov function, I'll have to try that. Yes, my gear channel is set to act.

Remember to keep everything balanced!

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10-24-2013 08:12 AM  5 years agoPost 12
Wynn1427

rrApprentice

Ca. 93612

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Easiest way to check to make sure the gain is reading proper from the radio is after the unit powers on adjust the tx and watch the lights change from one letter to the next. Adjust gain lower -> Letter lit should go towards A, Adjust gain higher -> Letter lit should go towards N

- Still on a stock 550 boom or is it a 550DFC combo with 600 boom?
- Verify the tail ratio. Turn the main rotor blades one full turn and count how many times the one tail blade makes a complete turn instead of having to count gears and verify the mod type on the auto-gear. On some v2 with stock 550 boom I belive the tail ratio got changed to a 3.85 ratio instead of a 4.5.
- Another thing check is the tail servo arm. I always ran the ball in the second hole out (3 hole doesn't might not provide a optimized tail end point). At Setup menu E the endpoint setup should confirm with a purple light, if not the ball needs to be adjusted in.

I am interested to see what gearing you have along with the motor & pinion. Since you are not running a governor your head speed can change as much as 15-20% from beginning to end of flight. Not sure if this happens throughout the flight or towards the end?

Wynn

Logo 550sx

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10-24-2013 03:59 PM  5 years agoPost 13
BradNewman

rrApprentice

Orange, Tx-USA

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Wynn, I will check those things when I get home this eavning and get back to you.
Thanks!
Brad Newman

Remember to keep everything balanced!

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10-25-2013 03:29 AM  5 years agoPost 14
BradNewman

rrApprentice

Orange, Tx-USA

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Wynn,
I'm running the original boom, not the 600
16 tooth pinion
170 tooth main gear
The tail rotor made 4.5 rotations for every 1 the main blades made.
Motor: BL600MX 1220kv

Remember to keep everything balanced!

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10-25-2013 03:52 AM  5 years agoPost 15
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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It's really starting to point to a simple low gain issue.

Crank the tail gain up a bunch and spool up slowly...if it starts wagging hard on spool up,stop and lower it.

Keep lowering it until it flys ok and then make sure to set the same gain for each flight mode...maybe a touch lower for higher head speed.

My gain is really high on my BeastX since I don't do any really fast forward flight.
When I do happen to get a wild hair and crank out a really fast wide open hurricane or circle,my tail will chirp because it's wagging super fast and tight.

I'd say it's fine up to around 70mph or so.
I see no need to back it down though because there's no need to go that fast.lol...

I literally never use the word literally right.

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10-25-2013 06:02 AM  5 years agoPost 16
Wynn1427

rrApprentice

Ca. 93612

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Boom and tail ratio is good for the gearing you have since I am not a fan of the 3.85 tail gearing. HS is around 2300 RPM on fresh pack and probably around 2066 RPM at the end of the pack. These numbers are based on a 100% TC. Any less on the TC % and your headspeed is less. If you are running low 80's (1840rpm) on TC% would sugest raising it or consider a 17t pinion to get the headspeed to at least 2200 for the 550mm blades.

Can't imagine the tail mechanics binding that would actually cause a tail blow out that bad, but I always hated the platic tail servo links on the pitch slider since they always seemed to bind before taking a file to them.

Wynn

Logo 550sx

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10-25-2013 06:09 AM  5 years agoPost 17
BradNewman

rrApprentice

Orange, Tx-USA

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Thanks Wynn. Have you ever had any problems with the one way bearing on your Trex550? I've got two 550 and they both have issues with the one way.

Remember to keep everything balanced!

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10-25-2013 04:04 PM  5 years agoPost 18
Wynn1427

rrApprentice

Ca. 93612

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Only problems I had was with the first generation style locking up. Broke free everytime after I landed and grabbed the gear and turn the rotorhea. Enventually ran the new style 600pro hub (6x flathead screws to main gear) one with mod 1.0 gearing and didn't see any problems after that. I know there are two variations of the first gen sleeve and hub with subtle differences but both locked up on a regular basis.

Wynn

Logo 550sx

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