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Logo 600 › Question on 600SX setup sluggish feel
10-22-2013 02:26 PM  4 years agoPost 1
HeliNutAndy

rrKey Veteran

worcester, MA USA

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I have two Logos a 500 and a 600SX. For some reason I love the way the 500 flies. It is very crisp at the controls and very agile. My 600 feels like it's lumbering or it feels like I'm using expo but I do not use it. The head speed on the 600 is at 1900 which is the tops I can get using a 12 pinion and the esc's governor. I just ordered and received a 13 and was going to put that on in hopes that increasing my head speed may make the model more crisp or more reactive. The tail is great and I do not want to mess with it. I double checked my pitch and it is at 13 degrees. I have tried both the vivid and precise settings. I like the precise setting more but the model still feels 'heavy'. I am running a 10S(4000mah) setup and I do not think it is literally heavy it just feels that way. I thought the SX was supposed to be a better model but it seems that my 500 is. This is my first 600 and the largest helicopter I have flown. Is it just the fact that bigger models are less agile and that's the way it is or is it my setup? The other thing I need to mention is that the Mini-Vbar I am using on the 500 is the GAUI Mini that ships with the NX4 combo. I do not think it is any different other than the branding of it. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

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10-22-2013 03:01 PM  4 years agoPost 2
dahld

rrKey Veteran

Bakersfield, CA, USA

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I suggest that the sluggish feel is due to the low head speed (1900). The classic head speed used for 3D flying, and the head speed that most 3D pilots are running when they say they like how the 600 flies, is usually in the 2200 range, some even go to 2300, and +/- 14 degrees of collective.

Here's what that set-up should look like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVJivttJdSc

(-: Dave

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10-22-2013 04:00 PM  4 years agoPost 3
HeliNutAndy

rrKey Veteran

worcester, MA USA

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I have seen that video and that person is scary good One day one day....

I am going to install the new pinion and see how it goes. Thank you for the help

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10-29-2013 11:27 AM  4 years agoPost 4
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Have you upgraded to Pro on the Vbar? This sharpens things up.

What motor KV? The reason I ask is that the maximum the governor would allow on mine was 2000 (CC 120HV) but I just ignored the warnings and could go upto 2200 and it still governed ok. Im enjoying longer flights now so im running 1800 rpm and still have all the agility I need I just had to increase pitch boost to keep the pitch response I like (beastx).

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-29-2013 07:11 PM  4 years agoPost 5
HeliNutAndy

rrKey Veteran

worcester, MA USA

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The motor is 560. I have not upgraded to Pro but it looks like I may have to. I have a new pinion to up my head speed a bit but I do not know what's wrong with the model. My Logo 500 flies great. It is very agile and feels very connected. When I fly the 600 it feels like I am using a ton of expo everywhere which I am not using any. I have checked my linkage lengths and I have run the Vbar setup multiple times hoping that I may have missed something. I am running 13 degrees of pitch. This is my first 'larger' model and I'm starting to think that it is just because the model is larger but that just doesn't seem right. When I have time later in the week I am going to upgrade the pinion and see if a quicker head speed does it for me but I can't imagine a few hundred rpm changing the feel that drastically.

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10-29-2013 07:13 PM  4 years agoPost 6
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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but I can't imagine a few hundred rpm changing the feel that drastically
I certainly can.

Before changing the pinion, have you tried to simply override the ESCs governor "limit"?

- John

RR rules!

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10-29-2013 07:32 PM  4 years agoPost 7
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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1900 to 2200 is a 15.8% increase in RPM. That's fairly significant.

  

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10-29-2013 07:45 PM  4 years agoPost 8
HeliNutAndy

rrKey Veteran

worcester, MA USA

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I wish you gentlemen could take the model out for a few laps. It is very soft on the sticks. It's hard for me to convey what the issue is since I have no other experiences except my own flying. I will try disabling the governor and see how it goes.

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10-30-2013 12:25 AM  4 years agoPost 9
AWittleWabbit

rrElite Veteran

O.C., CA

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I think you need pro to do it, but have you thought of upping the paddle sim value?

Heli-itis sufferer.

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10-30-2013 12:47 AM  4 years agoPost 10
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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just for a point of reference, when i set up my 600 i didn't change a thing from the stock settings and it was very nearly perfect running a 560KV motor on 12t at 2200rpm. very fast. very snappy. i did start with pro. no idea if that makes a difference or not. i've never run express.

i'm sure the recommendations for making changes are in the right direction. I just don't think they should be needed is all i'm saying. i'm more inclined to think it's something else....an oddball ESC setting maybe (pole count off or something???)

have you visually tached it to verify your set 1900 is actually 1900?

if it ain't broke, break it.

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10-30-2013 06:00 PM  4 years agoPost 11
GScott

rrElite Veteran

Lewis Center, OH

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Head speed is not the only factor in how responsive the heli is. The agility and style settings make a big difference. A couple of things to remember about the Express software:

1) it has 50% expo built in for cyclic and tail. This cannot be changed and any expo set in the radio adds to this.

2) the cyclic speed/agility is set using end points in the radio. If the cyclic is too slow try increasing the end points for aileron and elevator to 110 or 115.

If you decide to upgrade to Pro then you can remove the built in expo and set the cyclic speed via the agility slider. Pro also gives you much more flexibility on the style setting and the ability to add or remove the paddle sim. Most think it's just the governor but Pro gives you much more ability to tweak things.

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10-30-2013 06:02 PM  4 years agoPost 12
GScott

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Lewis Center, OH

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I also just noticed you are using a Gaui Vbar which I believe uses software more stripped down than the Vbar Express.

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10-30-2013 06:23 PM  4 years agoPost 13
BrainDrain_dx

rrKey Veteran

Wichita KS

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I also just noticed you are using a Gaui Vbar which I believe uses software more stripped down than the Vbar Express
ThHis is no longer the case, runs full express by default or pro if you upgrade. Same price as regular mini for the upgrade. If you have an old version it should upgrade to the normal express for free.

KDS Agile 7.2/5.5 Chase 360 - SkyHero Spyder/Spy/Little Spyder
Sponsored by my Visa

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10-31-2013 01:33 PM  4 years agoPost 14
HeliNutAndy

rrKey Veteran

worcester, MA USA

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I just wanted to mention that laughingstill(Thx Ron) contacted me and found some issues when he looked at my Vbar config file. I need to follow his suggestions which I will not be able to get to for a few days before increasing the HS. I would post them here but they are really no help to anyone since they are settings specific to my model.

Thx again,
Andy

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11-04-2013 12:44 AM  4 years agoPost 15
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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I can't imagine a few hundred rpm changing the feel that drastically.
You'll be surprised what a few hundred RPM will do to liven up a 600. Will make a night and day difference in crispness and get up and go.
As for the vbar, some will say there's no need to get the pro upgrade...a Logo will fly perfectly without it. The jury is out on that though. I consider the pro version a must have.

Team POP Secret

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11-04-2013 02:44 PM  4 years agoPost 16
HeliNutAndy

rrKey Veteran

worcester, MA USA

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I made the changes laughingstill suggested which was to fix a cyclic servo and to setup my pitch ranges again which I did. The model flies much better now. I was able to easiy 'hold' the model in the air performing tic tocs which was hard before. I also put a new pinion in the model to increase my head speed. I wasn't able to try that change as of yet but I'm sure the increase in speed should give me some more 'pop' . Hopefully I can get to the field this upcoming weekend. The weather is starting to turn cold and windy but hopefully I can keep up my good habit of flying every weekend going.

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11-05-2013 04:44 AM  4 years agoPost 17
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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Oh good, you got the secret setup tweaks.
What was wrong with the servo? I thought they were quite new.

Team POP Secret

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11-05-2013 10:52 AM  4 years agoPost 18
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Glad it worked for you. A couple of setup things is all you needed. I knew if your setup was done according to the VBAR setup there would be no way it would be sluggish.
Now an increase in HS will make it even quicker and you may have to lower the tail and head gains a little but wait until after you fly to see if that is needed...

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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11-05-2013 12:59 PM  4 years agoPost 19
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Good job laughingstill.

  

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11-05-2013 01:52 PM  4 years agoPost 20
HeliNutAndy

rrKey Veteran

worcester, MA USA

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What was wrong with the servo?
The servo is new or almost new after a bunch of flights now I just had to move the servo arm because my trim setting was a bit off. Like I mentioned earlier I have the new pinion installed. I'm finding that using the Castle software to setup the esc or governor feature is a bit strange. I can change my intended rpm or head speed and unless I make a change that is at least a few hundred rpm the recommended throttle curve percentage does not change.Oh well, it has worked well for me so far and it does not get hot. The scorpion motor gets a bit hot but that appears to be normal from what I've read. Thx again for the help. I think it's time to get a new model to add to the fleet I'm just afraid to since winter is coming and I do not want to purchase a model that may be replaced by a newer version in a few months.

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Logo 600 › Question on 600SX setup sluggish feel
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