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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Tail rotor/slide issue
10-10-2013 12:33 PM  4 years agoPost 21
fly-45

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west des moines, iowa - usa

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JKos
I had to do a complete rebuild. I wound up having to replace the entire tail, shaft, gear, slider, hub. Replaced the gyro, replaced the Rx, tail boom, blades..........nasty crash.
This is the first time I have actually had it in govenor mode(esc) and using a flat line 35% throttle curve(line).
I worked with again last night and found out the tail will lock left or right, whichever input you give it, but will not respond to input after that.
The gyro seems to work fine, if you pick up the heli and move it left or right the tail will respond. The tail will function fine if you check before spooling up. With a flat 35% throttle curve I have to power up with throttle hold on. Once to disable throttle hold the heli will spool up. As soon as the heli starts to spin, which is at full throttle by then, I turn throttle hold on and the tail will again move right or left.
Is there something about govenor mode that needs to be setup different?

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10-10-2013 04:46 PM  4 years agoPost 22
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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and found out the tail will lock left or right, whichever input you give it, but will not respond to input after that.
If it is in heading hold mode, then that is not unusual. Although, holding in opposite rudder should eventually see a response the other direction. It may take a few seconds.
if you pick up the heli and move it left or right the tail will respond.
Does it respond in the correct direction?
Is there something about govenor mode that needs to be setup different?
No.

- John

RR rules!

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10-10-2013 05:24 PM  4 years agoPost 23
fly-45

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west des moines, iowa - usa

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JKos
Thanks for your response.

It does move the correct direction when you give it input.
It just doesn't want to respond after that initial input is given.
It didn't work that way before, I've always been able to control the tail when it was on the ground, but there have been a lot of changes,I will try to hold it the other way for a few seconds tonight.
Just didn't want to have to repair any walls.

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10-10-2013 05:47 PM  4 years agoPost 24
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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fly-45,
Does your gyro have a "normal/reverse" switch on it ? You never said what gyro you have.....

If so, try placing that switch in the other position from which it is now at. In other words, if it's set to "reverse" then flip it to "normal"..... If "normal" flip it to "reverse"....

The symptoms you describe about your spinning tail are classic symptoms of a gyro not set to the right "direction" AND OR a servo that is set to operate in the opposite (wrong)direction required for your setup.....

Try the above suggestion and report back......

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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10-10-2013 08:38 PM  4 years agoPost 25
fly-45

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west des moines, iowa - usa

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JuanR

Thanks for the input
I have the HK402, clone of 401.

I try those suggestions and let you know

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10-10-2013 08:39 PM  4 years agoPost 26
fly-45

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west des moines, iowa - usa

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JuanR

The tail is spinning in direction, counter clockwise

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10-10-2013 08:53 PM  4 years agoPost 27
YSRRider

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usa

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make sure your wires are clear of all spinning parts. Many years ago when the first Align TREX came out, me and a friend built one. right before the heli would take off the cyclic would go hard left (or right, cant remember) What was happening was the servo tray as it moved down was pushing the wire from the cyclic servo against the brass (metal) pinion gear. It didnt chew all the way through but just enough to make a connection to 2 of the leads and that would trigger a signal to make the servo move.

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10-10-2013 09:01 PM  4 years agoPost 28
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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> It does move the correct direction when you give it input.

Does it give correction in the proper direction when you turn the heli by hand on the bench?

- John

RR rules!

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10-10-2013 10:29 PM  4 years agoPost 29
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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JuanR

The tail is spinning in direction, counter clockwise
Without doing anything else, just flip that little dip switch marked DIR to the other position from where it is at now.....

Run your heli. You'll immediately know if that was the issue.....

Let us know.

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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10-10-2013 10:54 PM  4 years agoPost 30
es1co2bar3

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winnetka california

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I don't understand why would the tail move when you flip THRTLE hold SWCTH? something is truly not right.
maybe tell us what radio and gyro your using.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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10-10-2013 11:08 PM  4 years agoPost 31
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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maybe tell us what radio and gyro your using
He already has.... read from the beginning.....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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10-10-2013 11:35 PM  4 years agoPost 32
es1co2bar3

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winnetka california

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with all the help he get so far he come up with some Ad normal operation.

that gyro he had is similar to the FTBA 401, I wonder how he mounted it?
or on what he mounted on? I have seen folks us Velcro to mount the gyro
then start having weird tail effect.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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10-11-2013 03:26 AM  4 years agoPost 33
fly-45

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west des moines, iowa - usa

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Juan R

I'll try changing the dip switch, but tomorrow, my grandson had a football game so kind of late nite.
Thanks for your input will try that tomorrow.
Tried to decrease the throttle gain in the ESC, but that didn't make any difference either.
Will try the switch tomorrow nite.

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10-11-2013 03:37 AM  4 years agoPost 34
Rick_H

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Boulder City, Nevada

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Check to make sure you don't have the gyro's rudder and gain plugs reversed in the receiver.

Or the gain plug plugged in Backwards.

Rick

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10-11-2013 12:30 PM  4 years agoPost 35
fly-45

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west des moines, iowa - usa

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Rick H
Thanks, I'll check both

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10-12-2013 03:34 AM  4 years agoPost 36
fly-45

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west des moines, iowa - usa

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Juan R

YOU NAILED IT!!

reversed the switch on the gyro and now some tail function.
I think I may have set the governor gain too low. I'll try that tomorrow.
I increased the travel on the RUDD channel from 75% to 80% and got a little more tail control, when I went to 85% I got tail wag, so will move that back down. But I think, according to what CC says about the Governor gain is if it's too low it can affect tail perforance.
I set that petty low on my initial setup custom 5. Will change to 15 and see if that makes any difference.

Have you changed this setting to know what the effects are on the heli performance?

Again thanks, such a simple thing, but so much grief!
Let you know the change for the ESC goes...........

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10-12-2013 11:32 AM  4 years agoPost 37
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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No problem..... glad to help...

Good luck with your governor setup, can't help you much there as I fly mostly nitro....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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10-12-2013 09:34 PM  4 years agoPost 38
fly-45

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west des moines, iowa - usa

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OK, I need a little more help, got the tail working, but can't seem to get to respond quite right. Gives me a sever tail wag.
I'm running in governor mode and have the Tx set on normal flight mode and I have changed the gear travel from 85 down to 55%, it doesn't seem to make any difference. The CC ESC 120HV has governor gain set at low, my gyro(HK402) is set at 120.

What do I need to change to get the tail wag straighten out?

Thanks for any help.

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10-12-2013 10:20 PM  4 years agoPost 39
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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This trouble shooting over the internet is tough !!!
But it sounds like to me that you may have the lead that controls the gyro gain plugged into the wrong slot on your receiver or that it is not plugged in correctly....

On the FUT 401, the yellow lead (lead with only one wire instead of 3) would be plugged into the gear channel so that you can flip a switch and select "normal mode" or "AVICS mode" which would be heading hold mode.

That lead with the single wire HAS to be plugged into the receiver so that the wire plugs into the SIGNAL pin. If not, changing your percentages on the gear channel will do nothing.....

Secondly, you do realize that there are two sets of numbers that can be adjusted, right ? On one side of the switch, you'll be adjusting the gain for the "normal" mode of operation. When you flip the switch in the other direction, you'll be controlling the "AVICS" or heading hold gain....

You need to determine which switch positions controls what..... and I'm not 100 % sure about this (I've never owned a DX7) but it may be that 0-50 % is "normal mode" (or standard rate) while anything over 50% would be "AVICS" or heading hold mode.....

You can easily determine whether you're in normal or HH mode by simply moving your rudder stick on the transmitter in either direction.... if the tail rotor slider moves to one side and just kinda stays there after you let go of the stick, that indicates that you're in HH mode..... Flip the switch and try it again.... if the tail rotor slider returns to center by itself, that indicates it is in "standard" or "rate" mode....

Instructions must have come with your equipment..... you need to spend some time reading (and re-reading) some of this stuff before it starts to sink in.

I'm sure that most of us that are trying to help you can sort things out IF the equipment were in front of us but trying to do this over the internet is really tough.....

Been there, done that and old enough to know better.....

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10-13-2013 04:33 PM  4 years agoPost 40
fly-45

rrNovice

west des moines, iowa - usa

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Juan R
Thanks for your input.
The rudder is in HH, have to manually bring back to center after going left or right. I do understand about normal and AVCS on the gain having different sides, I always fly in HH, so don't give the normal side much consideration, but will try the other channel below 50 and see how it responds. The yellow wire single pin does go the the signal side of the Rx. Maybe I got the plugs turned around when I put in the new Rx. I'll recheck that.
Let you know if that was the issue.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Tail rotor/slide issue
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