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HomeOff Topics › Are there any Electricians out there that can help shed light on an issue?
09-23-2013 03:56 AM  5 years agoPost 1
ssrobzoom

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Tn

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I have two GFCI breakers and one is on a circuit for the front and back outside receptacles. The other one is on the bath rooms circuit. Both circuits are not working, but the GFCI's are not tripped. I can reset both and nothing, neither circuits will come up.

I have been trouble shooting this issue and I have swapped the bath room GFCI temporary with a regular 20 amp breaker and the circuit works and then I put back the GFCI and it works a short while then the circuit goes down again. Cannot figure this issue out, any suggestions?

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09-23-2013 04:19 AM  5 years agoPost 2
Wave

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Illinois

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Are you sure the neutral and hot wires are connected to the proper terminals on the GFCI ?

Maybe they got reversed at a different outlet ?

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09-23-2013 04:42 AM  5 years agoPost 3
ssrobzoom

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I have two GFCI breakers, not GFCI outlets

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09-23-2013 05:07 AM  5 years agoPost 4
Wave

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Illinois

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Same concept still.

Verify the load side wiring and all the outlet wiring.

A GFCI should either work, or be overly sensitive because of leakage current, and trip.

What you are describing is a GFCI device that does not trip, but according to you shuts off it output ( but only after working for a little while ).

I'm telling you to check the basics first because otherwise it looks like a defective GFCI..or magic.

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09-23-2013 05:29 AM  5 years agoPost 5
ssrobzoom

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The GFCI in the bath room circuit I just replaced yesterday.

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09-23-2013 03:01 PM  5 years agoPost 6
bkervaski

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Birmingham, AL, USA

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Edit: Oops, never mind, looks like it was covered.

Team Synergy Factory Specialist / Scorpion / Thunder Power / Byron's Fuels

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09-23-2013 03:29 PM  5 years agoPost 7
Bouchah

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Willow Spring, N. Carolina USA

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Have you done any home repairs or remodeling recently? My brother called me over to help troubleshoot an outlet that kept randomly tripping. Turns out he was installing a hardwood floor and just so happened to shoot a nail through the floor, through the Romex and into the heating duct. The bitch was, it would only trip / short when someone walked in that spot where the nail was.

What exactly happened?
Have these circuits ever worked properly?
What was going on when they began to malfunction?
What are you plugging into them?
Who installed the breakers?
Are the breakers the proper size?
What gauge wire are the breakers feeding?

Howard

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09-23-2013 03:38 PM  5 years agoPost 8
ssrobzoom

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Tn

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I will pull all the recepticle out and ck the wiring connection again.

These circuits have been the same since purchasing the house which was approx 15 yrs. ago. I have not done any remodeling.

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09-23-2013 08:37 PM  5 years agoPost 9
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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I would stop looking at the GFI breakers for a second.

Look for the common "fault" that would cause both GFI breakers to "fail" at the same time. The Breakers may be fine.
But, if there is an ongoing issue, the GFI will not allow voltage / current flow if the fault exists on "reset".

You might have an issue with the Power Company's GND (bare copper) or common (white wire).

I ended up having to drive an 8' copper grounding rod into the ground and connecting my distribution panel's GND bar to it with 4AWG wire.

In my case, I was getting 0v difference between the Power Company's GND to the Power Company's Common. But, I was getting several volts difference Power Company GND to real Earth GNG.

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09-23-2013 10:39 PM  5 years agoPost 10
PBusch

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Minnesota

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Replace your GFCI breakers with new, make sure you use the same brand as the panel.

I'll add, have an electrician do it if your not qualified.

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09-23-2013 10:45 PM  5 years agoPost 11
helicopter

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Omaha, Nebraska

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PB is right.
And dont' forget that BOTH circuit wires, the white and
the black go TO THE GFCI BREAKER!!!!!!!

The White from the gfci breaker goes to the neutral bar.

DID YOU CHECK THIS!???

I love gravity, it always keeps my feet planted when I fly!

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09-24-2013 03:01 AM  5 years agoPost 12
Bouchah

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Willow Spring, N. Carolina USA

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Are those the only two GFCI breakers you have, or are there more in the circuit panel?

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09-24-2013 03:44 PM  5 years agoPost 13
ssrobzoom

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Tn

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I only have two GFCI breakers in the panel I have replaced one of them that's on the bath room circuit.

Both wires (white and black) are connect to the
GFCI breaker and the white wire coming off the GFCI is connected to the neutral bar in the panel.

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09-24-2013 04:27 PM  5 years agoPost 14
onebigjunker

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Wellsville, Ks

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sounds stupid but find the wire first connrction and unhook it past and do this one at a time till you find the problem!

work hard, play even harder!!!!
Team Empire Hobby/GAUI USA

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09-24-2013 05:01 PM  5 years agoPost 15
ssrobzoom

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will do

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09-25-2013 09:17 AM  5 years agoPost 16
57NOMAD

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La Palma, Calif.

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Buy yourself a ground fault tester for $7.00 to verify your problem and go from there.


If you're not crashing your not pushing hard enough!
MRC Team Hirobo

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10-01-2013 02:36 PM  5 years agoPost 17
tzclark

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Chilliwack British Columbia

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I am not sure about your local codes but if you have voltage when connected to regular breaker, replace gfci breakers with a gfci plug. It will be cheaper.

I would rather be in a boat, with a drink on the rocks, then in the drink, with a boat on the rocks!

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10-01-2013 04:06 PM  5 years agoPost 18
ssrobzoom

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Tn

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Here is the latest results from testing. I removed all receptacles and disconnect the circuit wires at the Power Panel Source and then started continuity testing all the wiring runs from the power panel to each receptacle.

I determined that the run from the power panel to Bathroom1 is the power source for all the receptacles and is where the issue is.

From the Power Panel to the Bathroom1, continuity testing at the Bathroom after wire nutting all the wire at the Power Panel together, the ground (bare) to neutral (white)had continuity. I then tested from the ground (bare) to Hot (black) does not have continuity. So it looks like it have a break (open) in the Hot (Black) wire.

Now the question is how to locate where the break is in the wire since all the wires are in the ceiling of my two story house and the top level is finished out.

Suggestions?

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10-01-2013 11:45 PM  5 years agoPost 19
Bouchah

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Willow Spring, N. Carolina USA

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Only being 15 years old I assume the house is wired with Romex, the plastic rubbery exterior sheathing / coating, not the old cloth crap. This stuff is pretty tough especially sitting in walls where it does not move or even vibrate really. I would think your problem is either in a box or near the service panel. There is a chance that a rodent may have chewed through the cable, or like I posted earlier someone may have put a nail through the cable. My wife is notorious for using whatever size nail she can find in the garage to hang a picture. If the wire is broken at the box in the bathroom, you should be able to grab it with some pliers and gently pull on it, if it is broken close to that point the copper will slide out of the insulation or the insulation will stretch where the copper is broken.

The bathroom receptacle is not connected to a switch is it? Say when you turn on the light the receptacle becomes hot, might want to check continuity with the light switch in both positions.

Since you think the problem is at the bathroom receptacle, have you put the outside light circuit back together to see if it works with the bathroom circuit disconnected?

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10-02-2013 12:07 AM  5 years agoPost 20
helicopter

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Omaha, Nebraska

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From what you have said, finding the OPEN HOT BLACK WIRE
may be a real troublesome matter.

My suggestion is to abandon THAT 12/2 that likely goes
up from the (basement?) to the first floor outlet. Unless
this puppy is a slab-on-grade, in which case the 'home runs'
do go up through the floor joists, likely hitting that
first floor recpt then up to the other upper floor bathroom.

Run a New Circuit - replacing the romex that shows OPEN.

Option two: Call an electrical contractor and see if he
has the experience necessary to LOCATE the OPEN. Might
need some tools to ping down stream.

Sherlock view: When DID it open? ANY new pictures to
hang lately? Siding new? Someone drove a screw or nail
into that bad romex perhaps? You may have wanted a NEW
outlet in your bath and YOU inadvertently broke a wire
at the outlet box?

Your best bet might just be to call an experienced electrician.

Good Luck.

I love gravity, it always keeps my feet planted when I fly!

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