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HomeScaleAircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion › WINDOW FRUSTRATION...SOLVED!!!
09-23-2013 02:27 AM  5 years agoPost 1
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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OK, so after freekin around for 3 hours this afternoon trying to install 1 window with rubber trim in my AS350, the unspeakable happened... From all the tugging and manipulating of the window and rubber trim, a section of paint around the window lifted. I used a super small syringe and injected CA under the lifted paint and was able to glue it back down. But since this happened, I decided it's safer to just glue the windows into the inside of the fuse. Then I'll cut the trim to fit the outside perimeter and glue it down. I have never been so frustrated trying to install anything, as I was with this... I have employed advice from other members, but the install was still a royal PITA!!!
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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09-23-2013 02:38 AM  5 years agoPost 2
Dr.Tim

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Mojave Desert

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Welcome to my World !!

From Simple minds come simple ideas! Approach Engineering

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09-23-2013 03:21 AM  5 years agoPost 3
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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I was also at it for hours on my much smaller AS350. Mine can and will still pop out if I hit them from behind so I know I don't have the windows trimmed right yet. Hope the recovery went well.

Don

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09-23-2013 05:48 AM  5 years agoPost 4
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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Tim: LOL, understood bud

Key: I still want to do this install the correct/scale looking way. I had a couple stiff drinks and gave it some thought. I think that I can still salvage the window install without chipping the paint. I was thinking that I'd just cut the back of the rubber window channel off and silicone the one window in from behind. The remaining windows will just be a chore to install, but I think that if I trim the border even smaller, they'll go in a bit easier...
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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09-23-2013 01:39 PM  5 years agoPost 5
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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Would the way car windshield installers do it work?

Using a string inside U channel, then pulling it to open and wrap itself to the edge.

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09-23-2013 02:57 PM  5 years agoPost 6
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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the simple way to do this is to fit the rubber to the window glass first and if you have cut it from a long length, a drop of CA on the end's will secure the rubber to be one piece. Then place the window in the opening and hook the rubber through from the inside with a dental pick.

No dental picks? Go and see your dentist! When he has finished drilling holes in your head are asked if he has any old picks that they no longer use. They often have a lot of old ones which are no longer sharp enough to cause pain to their patients. My dentist was happy to give me a handful. Just be sure they had been through the autoclave before you get them in case there are bits of old patient still stuck to them :-)

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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09-23-2013 03:55 PM  5 years agoPost 7
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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Barry, Do make sure you have the windows Trimmed properly.. about 1/16th clearance. I know I had a time on mine at first until I trimmed them (Trial and error) but once I figured the "Sweet spot" they go in fine.. Well saying fine means they are still time consuming but once in they stay. Both survived the "Hard Landing @ Darrel's and didn't pop out. I agree about the spot of CA on the rubber, but you don't need to glue the whole frame in...

Oh, and I almost forgot, there's a little trick;
Mix up some water/dish soap and apply to edge of the window material w/ a paint brush. You don't need a lot but it will help the glazing slide in to the rubber. Only use it on the window side of the weather stripping, not the fuse side. And when it dries you won't know it was there...

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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09-23-2013 04:46 PM  5 years agoPost 8
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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Thanks guys. I trimmed the windows approx 1/16" all the way around and they were still too tight a fit in the frames. I had also used CA to hold the rubber channel to the window before installing it. I'll give the fishing line trick and the dental pick a try today and see what happens. But I think the real trick is sizing the window properly. I just don't want to make it too small, then I'm screwed...
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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09-23-2013 08:45 PM  5 years agoPost 9
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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Guys:

I also thank you for those tips as I will need to redo mine once I get back from HSM.

Peter:

About your method. I have a small scale AS350 and the shape of the channel has one side with a slightly larger amount of rubber on the lip that attaches to the fuselage. Century recommends that the larger lip goes to the outside for larger scale windows and that it is installed inside for smaller scale jobs like mine. Would you still install it from the outside or, with the larger lip of rubber being on the inside, would you install it by hooking the smaller portion of the channel from the outside and pulling the window into place from the inside of the helicopter?

Thanks.

Don

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09-23-2013 10:49 PM  5 years agoPost 10
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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I think that may have also been one of the issues that caused my frustration. I installed the larger lip on the inside of the fuse, towards the fuse. I think that it may have been too hard to get it through the window opening. I'll try the other way tonight and see what happens. The larger side of the rubber molding may be there to hide any small gaps around the window from trimming it a tad too small.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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09-23-2013 10:58 PM  5 years agoPost 11
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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For the smaller models, to give a more scale appearance, use the narrow side of the weather strip facing out.
Be sure to sand/clean the inside of the fuse around the window opening so that the rubber sits flush in the groove. Try to get the thickness of the fiberglass uniform and thin enough to allow the rubber to fully seat.
It should be just a snug fit, when the glazing goes in it expands the gasket and makes the seal. I test the fit on the opening first (for length) and then adjust the glazing to fit that.
If (especially on the smaller windows)the weather strip is too fat on the inside, you may have to trim it. (exacto knife or sandpaper. I've found this on areas like the pillar posts,etc.
It can be a fair amount of work but the appearance is worth it.

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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09-24-2013 02:36 AM  5 years agoPost 12
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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I put the smaller section outside and the larger one inside and then pull the window in from the outside. You start from one edge and start easing the the lip in and just slide the pick around while pressing the window in. Use the the pick to get the lip inside the fuse. The window wants to get out and the thicker lip stops it.

Jim gives good advise to ensure the opening is not too thick.

Really it's just practice, the last window will slip in so easily you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

Edit! I hadn't really described the process too well. You use the flat pick to PUSH the lip in for 90% of the run and then a really fine pick to ease the last bit in. All from the outside. I dont glue the rubber to the fiberglass, its asking for trouble with either runs or fogging

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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09-24-2013 03:41 AM  5 years agoPost 13
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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Once again, thanks for those tips. It will make it much easier to re-install them when I get back. Take care and see some of you soon.

Don

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09-24-2013 03:50 AM  5 years agoPost 14
3dgimble

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Rochester

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I was ready to help, but I thought this was about Microsoft Windows, LOL, I was not sure where that rubber piece in his hand went on the Computer!

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09-24-2013 04:13 AM  5 years agoPost 15
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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OK, guys, thanks for all of your tips and help. I have been at this for 2 more frustrating hours today and still have not gotten 1 freeking window installed in this fuse!!! I'm no quitter, but at this time I'm throwing tools around the shop to vent frustration I have no idea why this is causing me sooooo much grief I have 10 days to finish this heli before scale masters and the windows are holding me up big time.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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09-24-2013 12:55 PM  5 years agoPost 16
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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OK, lets go back to the beginning and think a little about this. Firstly measure the thickness of the rubber in the center section of the seal. This is the bit between the window and the fiberglass. Lets say for example it is 1mm. If you now trim your window glass so it is 2mm smaller than the opening it will be a perfect fit, but difficult to put into place.

This is why there is more rubber forming a lip, so you can have a gap. Now, if you measure the width of the rubber across the 2 lips, lets say it is 3mm for this discussion, you could cut 6mm off the windows and the rubber would then be a perfect fit right on the edge of the lips....and fall into the fuselage or fall out depending on which way the wind was blowing, but putting the windows in place would be easy.

See where I am going with this? You need to trim the windows somewhere between 2mm and 6mm smaller than the opening and use the lip to cover the hole. The more you trim off, the easier it is to fit the window, but the greater the chance of it falling out. So, if you go for 4mm smaller than the opening, you have the best chance of it being easy to get in and it staying in. If you do cut it too small, a tiny dab of foam safe CA in strategic places will fix it in place, done on the inside of course.

The best way to figure out how much to cut off, is to trim a little off and try fitting it. Keep trimming it a little at a time until it fits, then measure it and trim the rest the same amount.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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09-24-2013 02:44 PM  5 years agoPost 17
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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Thanks Peter. I had trimmed the widow size to account for the center sectional thickness of the rubber "H" channel. Maybe I just hadn't taken enough off. I didn't want to err on the wrong side and remove too much. The side windows are not that big a deal if I screw them up, but the chin bubbles are. I'll have another go at it after work today.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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09-24-2013 03:10 PM  5 years agoPost 18
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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More tequila.... get your Zen going Barry!!

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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09-24-2013 04:48 PM  5 years agoPost 19
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMM... Zen moment
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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09-25-2013 03:02 AM  5 years agoPost 20
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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Sorry to hijack this thread a little bit but Peter, are you attending the fly-in at the Triple Creek Club near the end of October? Thanks and I will see you, Barry, next weekend in Davis.

Don

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