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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Another E question...10S 700?
09-22-2013 03:35 AM  5 years agoPost 1
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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I don't want or need any more power than nitro.

I fly at 10-11 degrees of pitch at 1950 RPM.

Is anyone flying 10S in those conditions?
How's it perform?

I was considering it for size.
Maybe 6000mAh instead of 5000mAh.

Would it fly longer?
Would it fly at all?

I literally never use the word literally right.

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09-22-2013 03:55 AM  5 years agoPost 2
rpat

rrElite Veteran

Weirton, W. Va.

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It will fly longer but you will pay a penalty of a heaver battery.

trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2

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09-22-2013 03:57 AM  5 years agoPost 3
JayL

rrVeteran

Leesburg GA

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the problem your going to run in is the weight using 10s. I would look into 12s but maybe use some 4500s im running 1950 with 14 deg of pitch and getting 6 mins of flight time easy. I fly aggressive with some big air stuff just a thought.

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09-22-2013 04:00 AM  5 years agoPost 4
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Yeah, it will work, but there is absolutely no benefit to 10s 6000 to get the same average flight time and basic performance as with 12s 5000. You are thinking about this wrong. You do not use the added voltage just for potential power. You use it to optimize run time and decrease current demands on the overall system.

Stay with at least 12s on a 700 class model. If you want to cut weight further and still have a decent flight time, run 4400's and gear the model conservatively.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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09-22-2013 05:32 AM  5 years agoPost 5
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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I see...Thanks.
12S it is then.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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09-22-2013 05:36 AM  5 years agoPost 6
Himilou

rrNovice

Seattle, Wa

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saw an x7 fly today on 10s with 1700 headspeed, worked well with collective management, 12s was way more impressive though

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09-22-2013 06:04 AM  5 years agoPost 7
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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Thanks Himilou...I'm not very good in the collective management area yet.lol...

Well...flying 100% nitro for years...maybe I am and don't even know it?

I literally never use the word literally right.

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09-22-2013 06:49 AM  5 years agoPost 8
Himilou

rrNovice

Seattle, Wa

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u zre

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09-22-2013 07:53 AM  5 years agoPost 9
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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u zre

Watch at YouTube

I literally never use the word literally right.

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09-22-2013 08:35 AM  5 years agoPost 10
raptorapture

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Multi-lingual auto correct?

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09-22-2013 08:37 PM  5 years agoPost 11
raptorapture

rrApprentice

Singapore

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If you want it to fly like Nitro, the things to look into are weight, flight time and power.

Starting with power, you want to use a governor to give you consistent motor output throught the flight in addition to governing the rotor rpm. You will need to set the ESC percentage low enough to facilitate the full length of the flight, ie. still going strong down to 20% remaining in flight packs.

Next for weight, you want to get a motor that is not too large/powerful in order to minimize its weight. Smaller ie. less mah flight packs, eg. 4,400 as suggested when using 12S for 700. An interesting side benefit is the flight time does not reduce as much as expected as a reduction in weight can extend the flying time.

Now for flying time, it is mainly about rpm. I would start by setting the rpm higher than your nitro level to compensate for the additional weight. However, it does not need to be as high as most people set it if you want similar performance to nitro. If the flying time is too short then reduce the rpm. There is serious diminishing returns when increasing the rpm at the high end. Consequently there is great reduction in energy usage and hence quite increased flight times when rpm is reduced.

Now here's the interesting part. Based on the rpm you decide you can adjust the motor you are going to use to get you further weight savings. Of course it is best to use other people's motor performance feedback rather than buy multiple motors. The motor is matched with a pinion that gives you an optimal energy usage and that usually is toward the high end of usage for the motor, ie smaller pinion. If you go with a more powerful motor but smaller pinion I believe you will have a less efficient powerband as well as having additional wasted weight.

Hope that helps. Some of this you probably already know given your usage of 6S already. Apologies for any banalities or duplication to other posts as I took a break to watch the F1

If going Scorpion I would suggest the 4525-520. If cost is not an issue Kontronic is supposed to be quite efficient, would suggest looking at 700 or 750 depending on your rpm decision. Finally, a number of people swear by Align for cost for performance.

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09-22-2013 08:50 PM  5 years agoPost 12
raptorapture

rrApprentice

Singapore

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After reading your other thread I realized I forgot about the other source of pack weight, the C rating. I would go with min 30-35C. Personally I use 60C but by going lower the pack weight reduces. You can check out the different combinations at the Revolectrix website.

Cheers.

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09-22-2013 08:51 PM  5 years agoPost 13
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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I already have an Align 700MX motor I plan to start with..510kv

I have a 10T pinion and 99T main gear.

On 10S 25C MrMel's calculator shows 2023 at the beginning of the flight and 1798 at the end so it should run 1910 governed all the way through or if it's governed for 1950 it should show a slight loss of speed at the end.

12S shows 2428 in the beginning and 2158 at the end...So it should run governed at 2293 all the way through.

I think I will just run 12S and govern at 2050 or so...My nitro rips at 2050....I can't imagine 2400+....

Thanks for your help.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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09-22-2013 09:04 PM  5 years agoPost 14
raptorapture

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Of course you have to be careful on the estimates, they are just that. I use other people's experience. My guess is you wouldn't achieve that high, ie the average. The key is going to also lie with which governor/ESC you are using. You will need to size the pinion based on the ESC. The jive 120A for instance prefers a higher pionion and then running at a lower %, ie 65. The 2050 looks like a good plan. You can adjust via ESC first and then later change the pinion to the optimal one. You might need to do some research to ensure the pinion you might need is manufactured.

I would be interested to find out the weight compared to nitro since you will have like for like and at what rpm you feel the performance is similar. This sounds like an interesting project

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09-22-2013 09:10 PM  5 years agoPost 15
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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I don't have a way to check RPM on the E heli...need a tach I guess.

The nitro has an RPM sensor and the governor is set to exactly 2050 RPM....

I don't even have my lipos yet and I can already tell the E is heavier than the N.

I'm really curious myself as to how they'll compare.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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09-23-2013 12:24 PM  5 years agoPost 16
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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If efficiency is the goal, another option is to just pull a flight pack and go 6S. My Whippy E for example is so horribly overpowered on 12S, it still flies in a quite stately manner on just one pack rather than 2. With a 5200mah 6S batt, I get about 11 minutes flight time. It'll even do respectable loops and rolls at a headspeed of about 1200-1100.

The best thing is the approx. 1 to 1 1/2 lbs of weight savings, which is part of what contributes to the increased efficiency (the low head speed which makes the blades fly at a more optimal AOA is another contributor).

Otherwise, yeah, if you're still carrying the weight of two packs, 10S won't buy you anything over 12S.

A 700MX 510KV would be an ideal motor for a 700 size 6S setup...

LS

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09-23-2013 03:47 PM  5 years agoPost 17
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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There would be no flight time difference between 10s 6000 and 12s 5000 and you probably wouldn't be able to tell the power difference either.

It would depend how you flew it at 1950 as to weather it would fly for longer than a nitro but anything other than circuits plus loops and rolls ide say no.

The most efficient way is to run a setup that allows you to run 100% flat throttle and gives you the HS you want in a hover around the middle of the flight say 3 minutes in.

Actually thinking about it you are about right to run 10s with the 510kv motor and 9.9:1 gear ratio at 100% throttle would give you around 1950, that would be a very efficient setup and wouldn't appear anymore powerful than a nitro at a guess.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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09-23-2013 04:22 PM  5 years agoPost 18
raptorapture

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Tach
You can use an external optical tach or the telemetry function of an ESC with that capability combined with storage or a telemetry receiver or compatible transmitter.

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09-23-2013 04:32 PM  5 years agoPost 19
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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Unclejane...6S wouldn't work out so well on my Aurora.
To keep it balanced,I would have to carry both 6S packs because they mount on the sides.

The frame is one inch wide so no packs inside.

I do have some 3S packs I could serial.lol....

I literally never use the word literally right.

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09-23-2013 04:35 PM  5 years agoPost 20
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You can use an external optical tach or the telemetry function of an ESC with that capability combined with storage or a telemetry receiver or compatible transmitter.
Where do you buy an optical tach with memory?

I don't want to stand over the rotor disc at 2300 RPM trying to read an LCD screen in the sun.

Thanks.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Another E question...10S 700?
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