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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › This is why Align 700N clutch fails
09-20-2013 02:21 PM  5 years agoPost 41
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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This is a very interesting discussion.

I have helped with Trex 600 and 700 clutches and with Raptor clutches, other brands also. With the Align and Raptor 50 I got the gap to .008" by using the Raptor 90 blue liner material and relining the bell. With other brands it depends.

But I also spend time on the clutch mount with an ROI, moving the clutch around in the hub to find the best position then shimming it over with aluminum foil until I get it as close as I can stand to work on it. In almost every case I can get ROI to indicate .001" or less. in some cases I've given up at .015", still so much better than the usual 'bolt it on and go fly' runout.

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09-20-2013 02:33 PM  5 years agoPost 42
red_z06

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Dumont, NJ

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Fast,

That is very nice. I assume you broke a clutch or two prior to this?

www.JustinJee.com

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09-20-2013 02:33 PM  5 years agoPost 43
fastflyer20

rrKey Veteran

N. Tonawanda, NY

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Thanks

The issue with the gassers was clutch slippage. A stock setup lasted 8 flights before slipping. Our engine RPM is less, from 12,500 - 14,500.

Relined to a lower gap lasted around 50.

The double would work for around 100 flights.

Paper works great as a shim behind the thinner liners to get the desired gap.

Tom
CAUTION - my posts are based on my experiences, yours may be different.

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09-20-2013 02:37 PM  5 years agoPost 44
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

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While better materials and better gap would certainly solve the problem. Better approach is to design parts so they will work with wider gap to account for at least 1/2 of the liner wear.

This requires the clutch to have same deflection with much less stress at that deflection if you understand how the stress is distributed and how sectional moi affect part deformation.

This will result in clutch working with inferior materials and tolerances.

www.JustinJee.com

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09-20-2013 02:40 PM  5 years agoPost 45
fastflyer20

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N. Tonawanda, NY

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Agree...

As long as there is a design robust enough that will allow for the variation.

Tom
CAUTION - my posts are based on my experiences, yours may be different.

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09-20-2013 02:41 PM  5 years agoPost 46
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

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The issue with the gassers was clutch slippage. A stock setup lasted 8 flights before slipping. Our engine RPM is less, from 12,500 - 14,500.
That is due to the centrifugal forces acting on the wing is lower (less RPM). Without double stacking, you can increase the centrifugal force at lower RPM to match that of the nitro by adding mass in the wing. But, this will cause the wing to start grabbing at lower rpm. This should not be a problem for a well tuned gasser.

www.JustinJee.com

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09-20-2013 08:29 PM  5 years agoPost 47
dragonflya

rrApprentice

Evergreen Aviation RC Club, Flyaway RC Club Oregon

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Very educational, excuse my ignorance but how does one measure said gap(s)? Liner, clutch, both? What device to use?
I've been flying nitro for 4 years but had no clue.
Thanks,


AMA #909110

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09-20-2013 08:41 PM  5 years agoPost 48
red_z06

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Dumont, NJ

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This will do.

http://www.all-spec.com/products/14...CFYmf4AodD0kADA

Measure the clutch diameter out of the assembly using the inside measuring jaw (bottom of display). Then set it to zero.

Now measure the inside diameter of the clutch liner with outside measuring (above display) and that will be the total gap so divide by two to get actual gap.

Clutch diameter should be 1.903 +/- 0.002 or so.

www.JustinJee.com

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09-20-2013 09:06 PM  5 years agoPost 49
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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09-21-2013 12:11 AM  5 years agoPost 50
dragonflya

rrApprentice

Evergreen Aviation RC Club, Flyaway RC Club Oregon

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Awesome, I am enlightened. Thanks for the explanation, need to dig out those calipers (knew they were good for something (jk)).


AMA #909110

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09-21-2013 02:58 AM  5 years agoPost 51
skybob

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Park Ridge NJ USA

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Im having better luck with a Lynx clutch , so far so good !

Team Boobie

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09-21-2013 03:14 AM  5 years agoPost 52
Bouchah

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Willow Spring, N. Carolina USA

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Outside the box?
Anyone think of making something like a weed eater or chain saw clutch? Seems like thypes of clutches would not have the same types of failure issues.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/...637567406.html#

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CLUT.../637527076.html

Blade 130x (5)
Trex 550 V2 (18)
Shuttle ZXX
Freya Xspec (20)

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09-21-2013 12:51 PM  5 years agoPost 53
rpat

rrElite Veteran

Weirton, W. Va.

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bu..,
Yea those clutches are probably better but look at how many parts there are in those clutches. A clutch like that would probably cost a lot to manufacture when they are getting away with the ones that they make now.

trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2

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09-21-2013 01:08 PM  5 years agoPost 54
cabeng

rrApprentice

South africa

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after 2 clutch failures , i did exactly what you did with your study
the best solution is to fit a hd lynx liner , do not use tape around the clutch so that on the first few flights it binds , with in 5 fights binding is gone and our clutch and liner will last 200 flights plus!

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09-21-2013 01:29 PM  5 years agoPost 55
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

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With using stock liner and clutch, a slight mod to the clutch will make it last at least 1000 flights.

www.JustinJee.com

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09-21-2013 01:50 PM  5 years agoPost 56
fastflyer20

rrKey Veteran

N. Tonawanda, NY

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Please share your mod

Tom
CAUTION - my posts are based on my experiences, yours may be different.

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09-21-2013 01:56 PM  5 years agoPost 57
Four Stroker

rrElite Veteran

Atlanta

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The stock clutch will last forever in the 600/700 if you do as many have said and set the clearance to 0.008" AND replace it at 0.012" or less. I also, like TMoore, center and machine the liner.

I bought a Lynx 600 clutch and liner and the gap was about 0.025" installed ! Due to the design it should be about 0.006" gap if you don't want to engage at 12,000 rpm. Additionally, the Lynx had a cheap one-way with plastic springs that lasted a whopping 10 flights. Aftermarket crap usually is crap. I may reuse the Lynx clutch again AFTER I replace the one-way AND set the gap to 0.006".

Expecting the clutch to last for 1/2 the liner thickness is completely bogus - unless you want to machine a new bell that gives 0.008" gap with a shinny new 0.004" thick liner.

I and the other old guys remember a wide range of designs that came and went - inlcuding pivots and springs.

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09-21-2013 02:31 PM  5 years agoPost 58
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

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Please share your mod
I posted the modded (not redesigned) shape that can be made from the stock clutch.

www.JustinJee.com

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09-21-2013 02:35 PM  5 years agoPost 59
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

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I and the other old guys remember a wide range of designs that came and went - inlcuding pivots and springs.
While the design gets more complicated with springs and pivots, the stresses are much easier to predict in a linear spring to make it not fail.

One piece clutch design, while more difficult to nail, can be achieved with enough engineering and computer aided analysis (due to complex shape).

www.JustinJee.com

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09-21-2013 03:11 PM  5 years agoPost 60
Bouchah

rrKey Veteran

Willow Spring, N. Carolina USA

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With the spring type clutch the worry about how much your liner is worn would not be a factor until it is totally worn. With a split clutch there is always the wonder how much the liner has decreased and is my clutch expanding too much.

Blade 130x (5)
Trex 550 V2 (18)
Shuttle ZXX
Freya Xspec (20)

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › This is why Align 700N clutch fails
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