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HomeAircraftHelicopterAerial Photography and Video › FAA documents for commercial use??
10-12-2013 09:07 PM  4 years agoPost 41
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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I have my commercial helicopter license and will find a way to legally do aerial photography with my rc helicoper.
Otherwise, I guess I will just have to do it from the full scale bird, Enstrom F28A, which rents for $300 per hour.
FAA is, and always has been, extremely particular about commercial ops in aviation, if there's anything they'll go out of their way to prosecute, it's Ill Eagle commercial operations. Both the pilot and the aircraft have to be appropriately certificated; you'd be amazed at what's actually illegal even tho at first glance, it looks like it shouldn't be.

We'll have to wait for some form of "standard category" to come to "UAS's" before commercial AP _not_ in a manned a/c becomes legal.

It's totally crazy too, because like Mike says, UAS's are a gold mine for duties where manned a/c are too big and expensive (and, well, also illegal lol). When they do come up with the regs, you know they'll be many years too late and inappropriate anyway, like always.

I say always deal in cash, change addresses frequently and _never_ put anything on Youtube

LS

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10-12-2013 10:05 PM  4 years agoPost 42
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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TECO
Hey guys I know a way to make money, and FAA can't say anything, I can't believe nobody found yet, I know guys that are making Lot money
Can't give you any more info, already gave too much
You keep posting you have a way, but won't say how, so I doubt you really have some method that really is legal for commercial.
Maybe tie a long string to it and claim it's tethered ???

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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10-12-2013 11:31 PM  4 years agoPost 43
TECO

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WARWICK RI, USA

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Well I am not doing, my octo its not done yet, but a lot of people are doing, do you really want to know what it is brow?

"Never argue with an idiot - he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

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10-12-2013 11:48 PM  4 years agoPost 44
thenewguy

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Corvallis, Oregon Where there is liquid sunshine!

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10-12-2013 11:49 PM  4 years agoPost 45
TECO

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WARWICK RI, USA

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What?

"Never argue with an idiot - he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

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10-12-2013 11:50 PM  4 years agoPost 46
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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do you really want to know what it is brow?
Yes, I am very curious. Although I have taken a lot of aerials, they are all over my property or given to others free of charge.

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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10-12-2013 11:54 PM  4 years agoPost 47
TECO

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WARWICK RI, USA

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Im getting here at work, I will open my mouth when I get home

"Never argue with an idiot - he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

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10-13-2013 01:31 AM  4 years agoPost 48
Mike Fortin

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USA

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so I doubt you really have some method that really is legal for commercial.
There is nothing illegal about commercial UAV purposes so do what you must and do it safely.

Have Rotors, Will Fly!

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10-13-2013 04:34 AM  4 years agoPost 49
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Mike
You say:
There is nothing illegal about commercial UAV purposes so do what you must and do it safely.
Your earlier post said:
According to the FAA, "sponsored" pilots cannot receive any sort of monetary compensation which includes kits, parts, blades and obviously money. This is considered "commercial flying" according to the FAA.
.
Are you saying if I am not a sponsored pilot, then it is OK to recieve money for AP work ?
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just want to know since I like doing AP work, which is for free for now.

I thought that was what this thread is about, using RC helicopters for commercial photography for profit, not UAV by itself..
Please explain ??

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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10-13-2013 12:02 PM  4 years agoPost 50
TECO

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WARWICK RI, USA

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Get the popcorn read and enjoy the movie

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2737...ed-for-takeoff/

"Never argue with an idiot - he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

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10-13-2013 03:06 PM  4 years agoPost 51
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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There is nothing illegal about commercial UAV purposes so do what you must and do it safely.
Er, I think the correct way to state this is there's nothing really _wrong_ with commercial UAV ops. Or putting it another way, this is arguably a case where what's a good, honest way to make a living and what's _legal_ are two different things.

I'm not a govt. conspiracy theory type, but I strongly suspect special interest influence at FAA concerning commercial operation regulations in general, including the use of UAV's. It's probably the insurance industry that's purchasing regulation from FAA in these types of cases.

When you do finally go commercial with AP using a UAV, you're really going to need insurance first and foremost to protect your business. And insurance companies absolutely hate insuring any kind of operation where there isn't someone they can go after. That's why it's so difficult and/or expensive to get insurance for aircraft that use one-off automotive engine conversions, for example. There's noone to sue in case of a problem, except for the poor guy who augered it in and is subsequently broke or worse.

So that's going to be a major hurdle for getting all of this to be actually legal. The insurance industry will not let FAA legalize something until there's absolute certainty that there will be someone somewhere with a big pile of money that they can sue in the event of a claim. That's kind of what this govt. shutdown thingy is all about - getting rid of federal protections against this kind of special interest influence in our government.

That's probably the main problem facing commercial use of UAVs at this point.....

LS

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10-13-2013 04:12 PM  4 years agoPost 52
LAcoptercam LLC

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New Orleans, LA

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TECO-
This video proves nothing of your previous claims...

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10-13-2013 04:24 PM  4 years agoPost 53
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Get the popcorn read and enjoy the movie

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2737...ed-for-takeoff/
Nice.. DJI and the humble Phantom FTW! Nice to see a big company on our side for a change lol.... I have a Phantom and I love it. This 2nd gen one looks like it'll be even more of an improvement. I do FPV only so I don't need the new one, but something like this could really help the cause of AP if it comes to the masses...

Two thumbs up...

LS

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10-13-2013 09:02 PM  4 years agoPost 54
Mike Fortin

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USA

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There are no laws, rules or regulations pertaining to Model Aircraft from the FAA. This includes model aircraft with cameras attached to them. There are no CFR's from the FAA.

The FAA doesn't currently have the authority to stop anyone from doing commercial AP work with model aircraft.

My comment was that "according to FAA's none existing regulations"
According to the FAA, "sponsored" pilots cannot receive any sort of monetary compensation which includes kits, parts, blades and obviously money. This is considered "commercial flying" according to the FAA.
The cease and desist letters that FAA has fired off is nothing more than a scare tactic as they don't have any authority over model aircraft and have been making up non existing rules as they've gone along when it comes to model aircraft with cameras on them and or how they are used.

For as long as model aircraft have been around the FAA has stayed away from anything that has to do with model aircraft.

So at this present moment and for some foreseeable years, the FAA will have it's work cut out for it drawing up regulations that actually make sense for those of us that fly a camera around on a model aircraft and will need to submit their proposed regulations to the public for comment and feedback.

We look forward to whatever they put out and to having the opportunity to respond to it and get our questions answered (by law) prior to them being able to put anything on the books.

Have Rotors, Will Fly!

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10-14-2013 03:04 AM  4 years agoPost 55
Toadster25

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Iowa

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I really think these quad copters are going to be so cheap and easy to fly that anyone can go buy one and do video or pictures themselves so there's not going to be much money to be made. If someone wants to or needs this kind of AP they can just buy the ready to fly quad and learn how to do it in about 20 min. Before we had to spend about a year learning to fly a heli and then work very hard to get vibrations and camera setup to work well. Now realtors or whoever it is your taking pictures for will see how easy it is and just go buy their own. It just too easy and not very expensive. Not to mention it only going to get easier and better every year.

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10-14-2013 02:17 PM  4 years agoPost 56
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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There are no laws, rules or regulations pertaining to Model Aircraft from the FAA. This includes model aircraft with cameras attached to them. There are no CFR's from the FAA.
The FAA doesn't currently have the authority to stop anyone from doing commercial AP work with model aircraft.
My comment was that "according to FAA's none existing regulations"
You know that and I know that, but FAA has other ideas .

The problem is the definition of "model aircraft". FAA does have the authority to regulate what flies around in the NAS as well as define what is and isn't an "aircraft" or a "model aircraft".

That's how they (and the special interests that buy FAA influence) _make_ it illegal. FAA does this all the time and it is (for better or worse) within their authority to do that.

Namely, at some point, a "model aircraft" stops being that and becomes something else that does fall under the purview of FAA's authority. If it gets big enough, has FPV gear on it and so on... At that point, they acquire the sayso over whether it can fly around in the NAS or be used for commercial purposes or not.

Again, this is one of those things where the road to hell was paved with good intentions. The original idea was public safety through proper regulation - it became a means for wealthy interests like the insurance industry to influence the law to their benefit rather than simply maintaining a safe NAS.

As for me, I'm on both sides of this as both an FPV model pilot and a full-scale pilot. I want to fly my FPV machines as "model aircraft", but at the same time, the thought of a bogie like my Whiplash with a camera on it on the edge of control because it's too far from its transmitter in the pattern over at my airport with me while I'm flying my Titan scares the jeepers out of me lol....

But for you guys doing AP, I think FAA is already being too burdensome (as an insurance industry puppet, of course). You guys know what you're doing, you use good equipment and you know how to use it. It's ridiculous that all this is coming down on you, IMO....

LS

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10-14-2013 03:03 PM  4 years agoPost 57
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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I really think these quad copters are going to be so cheap and easy to fly that anyone can go buy one and do video or pictures themselves so there's not going to be much money to be made. If someone wants to or needs this kind of AP they can just buy the ready to fly quad and learn how to do it in about 20 min. Before we had to spend about a year learning to fly a heli and then work very hard to get vibrations and camera setup to work well. Now realtors or whoever it is your taking pictures for will see how easy it is and just go buy their own. It just too easy and not very expensive. Not to mention it only going to get easier and better every year.
Exactly, and this is what has drawn the attention of the FAA. There's a 20% public safety concern and the remaining 80% insurance industry concern.

As I said before, if you're going to do AP as a business, you're going to need insurance, end of story. There's no other way you'll ever be able to get loans or otherwise protect your business from disasters, etc. This will just have to happen.

The insurance industry knows this and wants to get in on it - that's why they're pushing FAA to redefine "model aircraft" and make all of this illegal. And turn around and make it legal again, so insurance companies can subrogate and get back to their task of weaseling out of their obligations. As long as AP is unregulated, there's no way for insurance companies to bleed it like they do other commercial enterprises. They can't legally go after anyone since it's all under the radar anyway. And so on.

Well, I'm a little bit Alex Jones about this particular issue, but there it is.

But the technology of multirotors is already there for doing AP. Multirotor controllers like the ones from DJI have such good autopilot capabilities, the pilot is practically freed up from having to fly the aircraft at all so he can concentrate on doing photography. Vibrations? pshaw.. just balance the props and you're done lol... Even the hobby technology like my F550 with Naza-M could be used for AP and do a pretty professional job....

LS

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10-14-2013 04:29 PM  4 years agoPost 58
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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This shot of the "Grashopper" was taken from a Hex. I would think this is definitely a commercial application and use of AP RC work.
So is the FAA going to send a letter to 'Cease and Desist' ?
.
This is a great example of where any manned AP would be dangerous. RCAP work in this type environment and others like power wire inspections, volcano exploration, and many others is a real plus.

Watch at YouTube

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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10-14-2013 05:41 PM  4 years agoPost 59
Mike Fortin

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USA

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There is no doubt that model aircraft can make many, many jobs and people safer.

As a community it's up to us to educate the FAA so that no rash decisions are made or implemented without them having the full and accurate information available to them.

I'm sure the AMA is working hard on this, it would be great to hear them chime in since much of this is now really coming to light.

Have Rotors, Will Fly!

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10-14-2013 07:20 PM  4 years agoPost 60
OneHoof

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Cold Spring, Kentucky

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If you found a "legal" way; then please let us know TECO.

I feel RC helicopters, as long as they are kept in line of sight; and flown under 300 feet should be viewed in a different category from UAV's/UAS's.

I feel the FAA should make an exception to their policy to allow small aerial photography businesses like the ones we are trying to operate to fly photo jobs for compensation.

Who can we contact to lobby for this in Washington? Maybe we can get AMA to lobby for us or create a group to lobby for the rights of rc/model aircraft pilots to be permitted to operate for commercial purposes.

I think the only way this is going to go well for us with the FAA is if we band together and lobby to get our voices heard in Washington. If we wait and do nothing, then we will most likely get left out in the cold.

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