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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › policing ourselves
09-07-2013 01:27 PM  5 years agoPost 21
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

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look, as a voice of reason several factors contributed to Roman P's death. Flying too close, high winds/gusts, likely oncoming winds, and sun in the flight sky, it was around 3 pm when he was hit.

Add up the details and 2 and 2 make 4.

DON'T FLY IN ONCOMING WINDS,

DON'T FLY WITHIN 50FT with a LARGE HELI,

DON'T TUNE YOUR HELI WITH ULTRA HIGH HEAD SPEED.

Watch at YouTube

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09-07-2013 02:41 PM  5 years agoPost 22
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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Bouchah's comments
Bouchah,

I appreciate your comments greatly, very mature and realistic. Directly after IRCHA A video was posted by one manufactuerer that was NOT promoting safety and considerate behaviors (actually illegal flying). I called the pilot and team captain on their behaviors, and more importantly their attitudes.

That was just one month ago.

The tragedy that has taken place this week is exactly what I feared and was attempting to prevent. The call to be safe was mocked, belittled, and then shut down due to collaborative powers that be.

This saddens me even more knowing what happened Thursday. As a parent, I am crushed by the sad news.

Maybe, just maybe safety should be encouraged more from manufacturers, team captains, marketing directors, and fellow team pilots to ensure everyone's safety.

https://rc.runryder.com/t742829p1/

Tyler

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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09-07-2013 03:04 PM  5 years agoPost 23
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

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Maybe, just maybe safety should be encouraged more from manufacturers, team captains, marketing directors, and fellow team pilots to ensure everyone's safety.
Unfortunately the reverse is true. Ohh, how close can we get the heli without being hurt. Like playing with machettes, or fireworks until something goes horribly wrong.
A video was posted by one manufactuerer that was NOT promoting safety and considerate behaviors (actually illegal flying)
Again, daring, bravado, highjinx, horseplay, flirting with death, all a part of the attraction however irresponsible now that the ultimate end result has become reality. I think some guys were just waiting knowing in the backs of their minds the RP tragedy could happen.

People have warned, it takes a sensible person to step back and listen and take action, sometimes to the point of tough love, ohh yes.

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09-07-2013 06:01 PM  5 years agoPost 24
vinnielopez

rrNovice

ft lauderdale

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Gearhead and Bouchah hit the nail on the head. I really believe that if these incidents continue (I suspect they will start occurring more frequently) the government probably will step in. Its definitely not something I would like to see happen.

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09-07-2013 06:12 PM  5 years agoPost 25
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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If we fail to police ourselves, the government will not shut us down completely. But there will be restrictions that may make our hobby intolerable. Hear me out...

The issue of Roman's death has little to do with self policing. All evidence so far shows he was in a sanctioned area flying typical maneuvers for a skilled pilot, and doing so in accordance with AMA regulations. So it seems he self policed. So why are we talking about self policing? I guess Roman's death just makes us aware that this is a dangerous hobby and thus brings the argument back to the forefront.

Admittedly, our safety mindset, as a whole, has been eroding for years. Pros do dangerous stunts and we emulate. While I think we should be allowed to live our lives on the edge and everyone else should butt out, my opinion won't matter. It'll be the public/media/gov't that kicks our butts.

Ever tried to skateboard in a park? There was an entire "skateboarding is not a crime" campaign back in the 80's and 90's. Didn't work one bit. Show me a park that isn't specifically designed for skating where you can skate. Try skateboarding down many public roads or areas. You'll get stopped. Now how do you think that happened?

I bet the cavalier attitude of skaters to safety efforts didn't help.

We've already had one girl slashed up at a public park by a helicopter. The culprits grabbed their stuff and ran, leaving her with the cuts and medical bills. Luckily, some well meaning people, some from this site, helped. This park flying we're doing makes the public aware of us, for the wrong reasons.

Plus, with the whole drone media drama, there are people and agencies with agendas to limit drones. It's all over the news. We give them ammunition when there are mishaps. They are like the gun-grabbers...a solution looking for a problem. First sign of blood, they will use it to enforce their limiting agendas. Think I'm wrong? Read your AMA mag. We are fighting the H(*&^ out of this one. There are plenty of people ready to crack down on your freedoms in the name of your safety. Especially when there's a media perception (Ar-15's, and now big helis, eeeew)

Oh and there's no money in enforcing safety? Hmm. Didn't Obama just get done collectivizing/socializing our medical system? Yeah. There's money in it. Many states don't allow motorcycling without a helmet. Can't drive alone without a seatbelt. Why is that? You're only risking your own, right? Wrong. Society is responsible for collective health costs, so your safety becomes their business. We've socialized medicine, health is everyone's business.

Our attitude WILL determine the limits of our hobby.

I'm not sure what the crackdown will look like. Limits to size/weight? Limits to power? Limits to where you can fly them? Licensing? Safety features that make the models expensive? Liability insurance which increase costs? I don't know. I do know you can't even buy a car without airbags these days. Liability does some crazy stuff to design.

Yeah yeah. Scruu the "safety police." Whatever. The skaters back in the 80's liked to flip the bird to naysayers as well. Now they have little recourse.

I hope I'm wrong. I really do. Who knows, cars are better today than they were twenty years ago. DUI laws used to never exist. Maybe things will get better after a "crackdown". I can hope.

But I like doing it my way.

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09-07-2013 06:38 PM  5 years agoPost 26
rcflyerheli

rrKey Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

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Seeing that video, and the heli shedding its blades brings me back to my first attempted flight with a brand new "ready to fly" Blade 400. Wooden blades on it vs CF, and on the first liftoff attempt, just as I applied collective to lift off, one of the main grip bolts let go, and the wooden blade flew 30 feet across the gym and struck me squarely in the knee.

It didn't knock me down, or cut me, but it felt like someone had hit me on the knee with a large stick. The next day, my knee was showing a large bruise and had a knot on the size of a tennis ball. I guess I limped around for 3-4 days before I could walk normally.

This was on a ity-bitty "toy" heli. I didn't know anything about helis at that point, but had been flying planks plenty long enough with a couple prop related cuts to know that these things can be really dangerous.

After I contacted Horizon about the Blade, they replaced it, and I taught myself to fly it. Thinking that the black CF blades available for it were cool, I installed them just before I went to a major indoor plank fun fly, and was sort of put out when I was told I couldn't fly it with the carbon blades. They said I could fly if I put the wood blades on it, but as I had left them home, I didn't get to fly the heli.

In retrospect, I have to agree that they took the safe route. Today, if I was in the CD's shoes, I would do the same thing. Every facet of this hobby has the potential to cause serious injury or death. As others have said, motor cycle, auto, boat, etc racing can result in injury and death, so it is up to us as participants to be as safe as we can while participating.

I can't truly agree with the thought that the government will regulate or shut down the hobby. It is the individual sport associations that define and enforce rules for their sports, and so I believe it will be up to AMA/FAI to define and enforce safety rules for our hobby.

Logo 700, Specter 700, Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

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09-07-2013 11:34 PM  5 years agoPost 27
Rudy

rrVeteran

Houston TX/Bend OR

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max232 - So, what is the numbers? I've only heard of two by heli, not sure about planes.
Ronald Kyle - 2003 Houston Texas

He was helping a newbie hover a Raptor 30/50 He took his eyes off the helicopter that the student was hovering. The helicopter drifted back and caught Ronald in the neck.

The big lesson learned from this event.

Contact the local PD and FD to make sure you have a real address that can be given to 911 so they know where your flying at. Post that address at the field.

At a AMA club, in a Houston City park, that is inside Houston City limits, EMS response time was over 30 minutes and a leading factor to Ron's death.

Rudy Ackerman Houston TX/Bend OR

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09-08-2013 12:39 AM  5 years agoPost 28
max232

rrVeteran

Pensacola

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At a AMA club, in a Houston City park, that is inside Houston City limits, EMS response time was over 30 minutes and a leading factor to Ron's death
That is sad. I think we have an address, but I'm going to find out, definitely something to know for sure. Thanks

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09-08-2013 03:17 AM  5 years agoPost 29
Thatlumox

rrApprentice

NY

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Don't worry, NYs already on it.

New York State will soon be enacting the NY SAFE Act-2 (New York Secure Aircraft and Flying Enforcement) AKA , "Assault helicopter" ban.

Radio controlled Helis with one or more of the following characteristics can no longer be sold in NY. If you already own one you can keep it but you will have to registered it.

Characteristics;
1) Blades of more than 700mm in length
2) Any heli with a combined battery capacity of more than 10 cells. You can have 10 cells batteries but you cannot fly with more than 7 cells
3) Electric motors of more than 3000W or Nitros of more than .61
4) Total weight of more than 10 lbs
5) Capable of speeds in excess of 50 mph

Registration deadline is April 15th 2014

Remember, Tragic event + NY State + media fueled hype= bullsh!t laws.

"I'm a dirt torpedo!"

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09-08-2013 04:11 AM  5 years agoPost 30
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Please remember their has been several occurances that had prevention potential.
;

The frequency is picking up - more of them - and greater public awareness recognition of them.

Mainly attitude's on both side's.

For a long time here in our own community their was a on -running Forum or diatribe of MY / ME /PRIDE - DO Not police MY safety with Your Attitude. It was very SAD

Until we become level headed with basic elementary common sense - ???

WHo Know's: ??? : How many can further be prevented ??

Accident's are Accident's but MOST Accidents are preventable - Highly dependent on Attitude and Awareness.

greyeagle

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09-08-2013 04:37 AM  5 years agoPost 31
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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Ever tried to skateboard in a park? There was an entire "skateboarding is not a crime" campaign back in the 80's and 90's. Didn't work one bit. Show me a park that isn't specifically designed for skating where you can skate. Try skateboarding down many public roads or areas. You'll get stopped. Now how do you think that happened?
Skaters get hurt every single day..There is not one single pro skater that hasn't been busted up and in the ER.

They also loose control of their boards and passersby get hit and hurt by them all the time.

They are a huge liability when they skate on your property and they can be killed by traffic that has nothing to do with them.

I was in on the "Skating is not a crime" and I'm skate trash from way back....I'm old enough now to understand the laws regarding public skating.

I don't think it compares to helis in the slightest.

I do like the ideas about safety warnings and disclaimers made by event promoters and announcers.
I would also like to see better warnings on the kits.

I have seen Rome's videos and he wasn't a risky flyer at all.

If the heli was in a 90mph hurricane and broke when aimed right at him,it could have hit him from 50 feet away or more.
It would be coming at a wobbly all over the place path and might have been impossible to judge which way to go to get out of the way.
Ever been hit by a football after it bounced? I have.
It was going about 15-20mph and came from 30-50 feet away...I just couldn't get out of the way because of an unpredictable trajectory.

Accidents happen...It's tragic for sure but there's no reason to panic...Not just yet.

No reason to be blaming Rome either...You weren't there and have absolutely no idea what happened.

The best thing you can possibly do is try not to be the next victim.
Do whatever you think you have to do to be safe.
Take care of yourself...

I literally never use the word literally right.

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09-08-2013 04:46 AM  5 years agoPost 32
rudyy

rrElite Veteran

E. Amherst, NY

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No one has yet known the cause of the accident, probably in the world only Roman himself did. It could be caused by a mechanical failure, a electronic failure or he dumbed thumb while practising a new unfamiliar maneuver too close to himself. ... who knows.

The bottom line is.. just fly further away to give youself some buffer to react for the unanticipated.

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09-08-2013 05:56 AM  5 years agoPost 33
jadams

rrKey Veteran

East coast USA

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only thing we need to ban is the freaking DFC head...

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09-08-2013 06:47 AM  5 years agoPost 34
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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every one of you pleae see this link !!!!!
some are from helis but most are from planes, it will tell you a lot

http://chrismeme11.over-blog.com/m/...e-36258812.html

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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09-08-2013 06:52 AM  5 years agoPost 35
Rick_H

rrKey Veteran

Boulder City, Nevada

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Last Thursday was a tragic accident and we do need to learn from it and work to be safer when we fly. But lets all be realistic about what involvement the Government will have in our hobby over this.

Number of Toy related deaths for youth under 15 per year: 13
Number of High School football deaths per year: 18
Number of Rock Climbing Deaths per year: 25
Number of Skateboarding Deaths per year: 30
Number of Snow Skiing Related Deaths per year: 38
Number of Skydiving Deaths per year: 42
Number of Horse Back Riding Deaths per year: 100
Number of ATV deaths per year: 317
Number of Bicycle deaths per year: 677
Number of Swimming related Deaths per year: 3,533
Number of Illegal Drug Related Deaths per year: 17,000
Number of Gun related Deaths per year: 31,076
Number of Car Accident Deaths per year: 40,000
These numbers were obtained from Google searches and are approximations.

Number of R/C Heli related Deaths in the USA since the first R/C Heli (50 years ago) for the USA: 2 That's .04 deaths per year in our hobby in the USA.

Yes, I know there have been a few more deaths over sea's but people are talking about the US Government shutting us down or regulating us because of this.

Rick

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09-08-2013 07:00 AM  5 years agoPost 36
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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Number of R/C Heli related Deaths in the USA since the first R/C Heli (50 years ago) for the USA: 2
Rick,, there was one other I know of in the US, the poor guy's son watched it happen, he was hit in the neck

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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09-08-2013 07:02 AM  5 years agoPost 37
Rick_H

rrKey Veteran

Boulder City, Nevada

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Ok, I did not hear about that one. When and where did it happen?

Rick

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09-08-2013 07:10 AM  5 years agoPost 38
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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oh I don't remember where and when, it was back 5 or 6 years,
this guy was teaching a newbee, and he saw the newbee was doing fine so he walked away, and when he turned around the heli was coming at him and hit him in the neck and cut both his neck vane and artery
it was post on RR

poor guy

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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09-08-2013 07:21 AM  5 years agoPost 39
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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here, 003
https://rc.runryder.com/t70830p1/

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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09-08-2013 07:37 AM  5 years agoPost 40
Volcano

rrApprentice

chicago

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Oh but 3 deaths is too many, we need regulations. Why does anyone need these dangerous flying machines? - sarcasm

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