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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Flybar vs flybarless
09-04-2013 03:28 PM  5 years agoPost 1
soulrider911

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Novato Ca

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Hi guys in sure this question has been asked before, so forgive me. I have been out if the hobby for a while and thinking of getting a new heli. However I'm wondering if I should be considering a flybarless system? Is it worth it? Thanks

Why don't cats get gray hair with age?.....

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09-04-2013 03:40 PM  5 years agoPost 2
BrainDrain_dx

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Wichita KS

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Flybarless has moved the hobby forward quite a bit. It is something you should not only embrace but buy the best unit you can afford. Since it is in complete control of how your heli flys it is one of the most important decisions when building a heli.

I would look hard at a mikado vbar. I have setup several new people (to flybarless) on vbar and they are always impressed by the way it flys.

KDS Agile 7.2/5.5 Chase 360 - SkyHero Spyder/Spy/Little Spyder
Sponsored by my Visa

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09-04-2013 04:04 PM  5 years agoPost 3
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Tacoma, WA

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I like flybarless too for at least these two reasons:
1) More power (less drag).
2) The improved stability has helped me while practicing maneuvers, increasing my confidence.

But if you're not one for some tinkering, the flybar may be for you.

_Sam B_

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09-04-2013 04:08 PM  5 years agoPost 4
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I have to second everything Braindrain wrote. FBL is here to stay and FBL units are getting better and better but there are some that are in the infancy stages that may be good units but just are not proven just yet. VBAR is the oldest and best IMO. The support is legendary and has a lot to offer for the price. Do your research and make an informed decision, don't just believe the fanboys (myself included), you will be much happier for it....Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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09-04-2013 04:35 PM  5 years agoPost 5
NQNA

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USA

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I also vote for the flybarless machines. Vbar is at the top of the heap, but I also like and own the Spektrum AR7200BX and the MSHeli Brain units. I'm sure others can speak of their success with the other brands such as Helicommand/BavarianDemon, Skookum and Futaba.

I have not had great results with the Align 3G and 3GX units and have experienced or have witnessed several failures of the 3GX in flight. I have also had a Ikon unit fail in flight (same unit as the MSheli Brain).

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09-04-2013 05:38 PM  5 years agoPost 6
qraptor

rrApprentice

Illinois

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I too would suggest FBL.

And speaking of choices, my vote goes to Helicommand. If you have been out of the hobby for a while, the self-level and rescue features are a very nice option. And it is a solid FBL unit in its own right.

It seems complicated to set up, but the wizard guides you through it. And there are plenty of helpful instructions and videos out there.

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09-04-2013 11:00 PM  5 years agoPost 7
D.Magee

rrKey Veteran

kansas city mo.

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Simple answer---------------Yes

Teameagles@HaveFun

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09-05-2013 04:39 AM  5 years agoPost 8
soulrider911

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Novato Ca

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Thanks for all the great input guys oh how I have missed this forum always great help. So I have a spectrum dx7 apwill the vbar work with that, if not what's a food unit? I'm ordering a trex 600n dfc, it's comes with the 3gx system but I was planning in ditching it immediately

Why don't cats get gray hair with age?.....

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09-05-2013 05:47 AM  5 years agoPost 9
spiderco

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Henderson, Nevada

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I recently went FBL with a new 800 after flying FB for many years. After many batteries worth of tuning, I've got it close to flying like a FB but the "disconnected" feel is still there. This "disconnected" feel is hard to explain but I felt it as soon as I lifted the heli off on its maiden.

The attitude of the helicopter is locked in with FBL, no more trimming, no pitching issues in forward flight, very little drifting and I'm correcting the helicopter a lot less. My maneuvers are more precise and tight.

It's a lot like going from a Piezo gyro (rate) to a 401 (heading hold) on the tail. The cyclic now feels like its on "hold".

As good as FBL is, I will be keeping and flying my FB helis. I actually like correcting and having to "fly" the helicopter. I will have both from now on though as I enjoy them both equally.

fly til its dry

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09-05-2013 06:46 AM  5 years agoPost 10
soulrider911

rrVeteran

Novato Ca

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So what about the beasts? I hear people loving that... The v-bar still better, also can some one help me, I need to make sure that either one will work with a spectrum radio thaks

Why don't cats get gray hair with age?.....

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09-05-2013 07:11 AM  5 years agoPost 11
sharam

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Northern California - Fly at Morgan Hill Field

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Definitely FBL on all helis! I prefer vbar. I also have beastx and 3G.

Verba volant, scripta manet

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09-05-2013 05:50 PM  5 years agoPost 12
ticedoff8

rrKey Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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First of all - what heli are you buying or currently own?

I would recommend a flybared heli for the sake of simplicity. They are easy to setup, stable and great platforms for learning. If you have no ambitions for being a 3D smack-down monster, the flybared heli will be fine for a long, long time.

But, as everyone has said, flybarless is becoming pretty common. And, finding a flybared heli kit at this point is getting harder and harder. So, if you are buying a new heli, you will most likely be getting a flybarless kit and you will need a FBL controller.

I flew Raptor 60 and Raptor 90SE that were originally flybared. I converted the R90 to FBL and like it.
I also fly an Align Trex 600N (with the 3G head) and a Trex 450Pro with the 3G head. So, I would say I am fully converted to the FBL camp.

The main benefit of the FBL head / controller is the unlimited tuning of the head response.
I tried every trick in the book to get my R90 SE flybared head to get better cyclic response, but I ran into mechanical limitations and everything became a compromise. When I converted it to an Align DFC head and a Skookum SK540 FBL, it was now easy to dial in the cyclic rates and response I wanted with no compromises.

BTW: I highly recommend the Skookum SK540. At $250 USD, it has all the features I need and I have 3 of them right now.

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09-06-2013 12:18 AM  5 years agoPost 13
soulrider911

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Novato Ca

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Thanks guys, to clarify i just ordered a trex600n DFC, and I am using a Spektrum DX-7i, so i was going to go with the spektrum ar7200bx, for the ease of having one unit. I understand that the V-Bar, it most likely the best... Also I don't have a PC computer which is required for setup.

Why don't cats get gray hair with age?.....

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10-22-2013 04:03 PM  4 years agoPost 14
Rick~K

rrApprentice

WV - U.S.A.

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A question for a FL flyer...

If I converted my 600N FL to FBL what would I notice in the way it flys? As far as something like when I'm in forward flight and release the forward stick pressure, would it stop forward flight like FB or hold the same angle?

Thanks

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10-22-2013 04:07 PM  4 years agoPost 15
BrainDrain_dx

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Wichita KS

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Self level would make it stop if you let go of the stick(sk720), otherwise it will fly in the last attitude you left it in indefinitely, regardless of external factors like wind(all FBL act like this). Which is what makes FBL superior, flys very predicable.

KDS Agile 7.2/5.5 Chase 360 - SkyHero Spyder/Spy/Little Spyder
Sponsored by my Visa

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10-22-2013 04:49 PM  4 years agoPost 16
rcflyerheli

rrKey Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

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Both the Vbar will definitely work with the Spektrum transmitter, although I haven't run the same one as you have, my DX8 and DX18 both work with the Vbar. You will need two satellite receivers to attach to the Vbar.

As far as the AR7200, since it is a Spektrum product, it would naturally follow that it will work with the DX7, but I have not run the AR7200, so I can't claim any knowledge on it.

Another question I have in particular about your setup is are you planning to convert an existing FB heli to FBL? If so, then you will probably have geometry issues due to the fact that the FB mechanics reduce the throw from the swash to the grips, and just swapping the heads will likely lead to way too much cyclic control. In order to tame the excess cyclic, you will have to turn your travel way down which reduces the available resolution of your cyclic controls. I had to do this exact thing when I converted my 600 ESP to FBL, but after getting the correct servo wheel diameter, I have been flying this for a couple years, and it is a delight for me.

Good luck,

Ralph

Logo 700, Specter 700, Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

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10-25-2013 02:38 PM  4 years agoPost 17
basmntdweller

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis IN

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Your chosen combo of 600N DFC and an AR7200BX will make an excellent flying heli. I have a 600N with 3G head and AR7200BX. It is my favorite heli to fly. I set it up per the book and all I adjusted was upped the aileron and elevator gain dials about 30degrees. Haven't changed anything since. I have old Futaba 9252 servos and I run the electronics on a 2300mah A123 pack unregulated except for a dropping diode on the rudder servo. I first flew it at IRCHA 2012 and has been flawless ever since.

Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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10-29-2013 04:25 PM  4 years agoPost 18
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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If you have no PC get the AR7200BX. You will need to forget most of what you have learned about setting up a flybarred heli, but don't worry, it's all good! Once your head is round it, you'll love it and you probably won't fly flybarred again!

Spiderco, just out of interest which FBL system are you feeling this 'disconnected' feel?

60% of the time, it works every time!

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11-02-2013 01:26 AM  4 years agoPost 19
Nasty1

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Enf,Ct-USA

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+1 what spiderco said, I feel the same way.

Empire Hobby Team Gaui USA

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11-02-2013 01:33 PM  4 years agoPost 20
meowguy

rrVeteran

Saco, ME

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I converted my Trex 600n Flybar to Flybarless so I have a pretty good notion of the effect going to flybarless has on the exact same helicopter. With the AR7200BX you can adjust the unit for various "Flight Behaviors" (page 24) from the pre-set NORMAL to EXTREME, or under Transmitter control. My first flights with the converted machine were under Transmitter Control where I had dual rates and expo. I honestly did not feel a great difference in the control behavior except maybe the new setup was kind of edgy, meaning very locked in. There was no floating around or drifting as a large flybar heli would do.

Then I tried the PRO setting. That was simply too much for me to handle. I flew a couple of gallons with it that way, but eventually settled on the NORMAL value after talking to my friends at our field. Now it just flies like a very locked in flybar heli which is what I am after.

The big advantage of a flybarless heli in my opinion is the lower number of parts you have to worry about. In a crash I was always rebuilding the flybar which was among the most time consuming. The helicopters look better without a flybar, and may in fact fly faster. They autorotate just as well with or without flybar.

The DX7i as I believe has only two flight modes; Normal and 1. The DX8 has three; Normal, 1 and 2. Depending on your capabilities the former may be a slight disadvantage but has nothing to do with the AR7200BX which is a fine piece of equipment (I have 3). You get you pay for with transmitters. But that's another topic.

"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground." J. Taylor

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