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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › Is The Bible True?
04-09-2014 01:11 PM  4 years agoPost 2061
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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outhouse, I think you have deep seated problems with GOD and you are so clinging on to your sin, that you cannot fathom ever being free.
That will never happen.

ObummerCare does not include "long term" psychotherapy.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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04-09-2014 01:59 PM  4 years agoPost 2062
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Just rope off the Hole with Caution Safety Barrier Tape so NO ONE does not fall in - and put the Union required Safety Fire Watch near it -- with a bucket to sit on and a box of kibble and his radio. It's bid into the job.

Maybe be cruel and make him stand their with a flag or sign all day with a florescent vest on and a Hard hat that don't fit.

O.T> Written 1000 Year's Prior to the Arrival of THE CHRIST
The Suffering, Praise, and Posterity of the Messiah
To the Chief Musician. Set to “The Deer of the Dawn.”

My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent.

But You are holy,
Enthroned in the praises of Israel.
Our fathers trusted in You;
They trusted, and You delivered them.
They cried to You, and were delivered;
They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.

But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised by the people.
All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
“He trusted[b] in the Lord, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”

But You are He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts.
I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother’s womb
You have been My God.
Be not far from Me,
For trouble is near;
For there is none to help.

Many bulls have surrounded Me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me.
They gape at Me with their mouths,
Like a raging and roaring lion.

I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.

For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced[c] My hands and My feet;
I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.

But You, O Lord, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!
Deliver Me from the sword,
My precious life from the power of the dog.
Save Me from the lion’s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!

You have answered Me.

I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
You who fear the Lord, praise Him!
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!
For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from Him;
But when He cried to Him, He heard.

My praise shall be of You in the great assembly;
I will pay My vows before those who fear Him.
The poor shall eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the Lord.
Let your heart live forever!

All the ends of the world
Shall remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations
Shall worship before You.[d]
For the kingdom is the Lord’s,
And He rules over the nations.

All the prosperous of the earth
Shall eat and worship;
All those who go down to the dust
Shall bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep himself alive.

A posterity shall serve Him.
It will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation,
They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born,
That He has done this.

Who was looking forward 1000 Year's too Easter ??

greyeagle

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04-09-2014 02:13 PM  4 years agoPost 2063
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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Kids curse like crazy in our public schools.

Kids say a prayer in our public schools and everyone looses their frickin minds.

There are plenty of adults who are blind to this.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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04-09-2014 02:14 PM  4 years agoPost 2064
Hoggy42

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Australia

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Dennis
You have no right to interfere with my right to believe what I choose than I have the right to do the same to you.
What I believe is none if your business and does not affect you.
I absolutely don't care what you believe as an individual. And so long as it doesn't effect me or others. Just as I don't care what Muslims believe but I do care when local government are planning on paying for Muslim tourists. And I do care when Christian groups lobby the government to get laws passed that suit them. I also care very much when scumbag terrorists blow up innocent people. And I care when lying scumbag apologists deceive the vulnerable. It's interesting to see you don't care that other nations will are and will continue to surpass yours.

Helimatt
1. Not enough time to fabricate stories about Jesus
Not sure how to respond... How do you know how long it would take?
2. Scourging and crucifixtion are well documented punishments- they were carefully, methodically devised, brutal, and through much experience well designed to bring about death.
Yes Agree
The Romans knew a dead crucifixtion victim when they saw one.
How do you know that they know someone was dead? One thing which I notice about the process was that the Romans would break the legs of the victim to bring on death sooner. They didn't do this to Jesus because he was already dead perhaps he was faking perhaps he was so near death and passed out that they thought he was.
Nobody in that time purported that Jesus was not dead (much much later idea).
Well why would they? If he was so close to death and passed out they may have thought he was dead. Did they have stethoscopes? did they perform an autopsy? cut his head off?.

Do you realize this happens regularly enough today paramedics pronounce someone dead at a crash site. Then an undertaker finds them still breathing. People wake up in morgues after being pronounced dead a day or more later. So do you think that the work of god bringing them back to life? Or trained professionals with the best equipment making mistakes? What's more likely?
3. Nobody has EVER produced any sign or trace of a body
Nobody has EVER produced any trace of Bin Laden either I mean I know they say they had it but how do we know?

Another possibility is that Jesus was a grand illusionist of his day and the man on the cross wasn't him but a good double. Explains all those other party tricks of his as well by todays standards it's pretty lame David Blaine makes him look silly. Was Jesus just a fantastic conman? who left town after he was found out?

I could keep going is what it boils down to is quite simply there are many more plausible explanations then god bought him back to life.

Every mystery ever solved has turned out to be NOT MAGIC. There has never been a proven recorded supernatural event.

Let me ask did you believe Jesus was bought back from the dead by god before or after you read the information from the apologists?
You've claimed that it didn't happen, but offered no evidence that it did not
I know the others have covered this one. But before you use this again I want you to think of a prosecutor standing in a court saying to the jury "The defence can't prove that the defendant didn't do it, Therefor he must have. The prosecution rests".

Thomas
( but by the way hoggy why do you show anger towards it as if it's a human? It's just a different way of looking at things factually from a different perspective. )
Sorry yeah I should have been using apologists not apologetics my bad. Yes they anger me for good reason. And no it's a way of factually lying and you by supporting them are just as bad I'd tell you to enjoy hell but I'm not going to threaten you with imaginary things.

Christian apologists are nothing more then fraudsters they should be in prison. And the ones that aren't in it for the money the ones that believe they have the evidence to prove Christians are right should be locked up in a mental hospitals with electrodes stuck to their heads. Stealing someone's future by infecting their minds with a virus should be seen as a crime.

After all it's completely possible for someone to be a Christian while being able to separate myths from fact. And who accept proven science and contribute to our world in a positive manner. People like Ken Miller who helped keep your rubbish out of school. Even W.L.C thinks your an embarrassment.
you guys are showing a lot of buried anger and really need to seek some professional help.
You really need to get some help for your hallucinations.
As far a miracles go they happen around you every day
Ok define a miracle?

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04-09-2014 02:18 PM  4 years agoPost 2065
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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I submit that miracles are possible
Prove it.

LS

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04-09-2014 02:26 PM  4 years agoPost 2066
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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LS, we cannot move on to proof of miracles until the POSSIBILITY is established.

Sans resolving the first question, we don't know if there is any evidence that might be acceptable or put the occurance of a miracle on the level of "most probably occurred"-

Are you agnostic about the miraculous? Is there a logical or metaphysical inconsistency with a supernatural occurance?

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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04-09-2014 02:33 PM  4 years agoPost 2067
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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Hoggy,
How do you know that they know someone was dead? One thing which I notice about the process was that the Romans would break the legs of the victim to bring on death sooner. They didn't do this to Jesus because he was already dead perhaps he was faking perhaps he was so near death and passed out that they thought he was
They also thrust a spear into Jesus' side and "blood and water" emanated from the wound. This indicates that He suffered massive heart failure, as the pericardium filled with fluid (lymph, or water; it is a clear liquid). This is consistent with suffocation death (on the cross) and the general shock from loss of blood due to the scourging. Like we said, the Romans were experts at death in this manner.

Then the took down His body. Then they prepared it for burial. Jesus was neither "swooned" nor faking. Many people from both "sides" saw, handled, and were with His body- confirmed dead.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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04-09-2014 02:35 PM  4 years agoPost 2068
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Simple : FIX IT !
Kids curse like crazy in our public schools.
DOn't feed em for the day - Givem something to really curse about.

They will not starve and you won't kill em. Most are 40 Lb's over weight anyway.

or really freak em - Take their Electronic NOn -Social Media away
watch em implode.

Why are they imbalanced ?? : A head packed full of cartoon's.

greyeagle

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04-09-2014 02:47 PM  4 years agoPost 2069
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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LS, we cannot move on to proof of miracles until the POSSIBILITY is established.
Correct. As the claimant, that's an essential part of your next task. Until then, I have no reason to believe a single word you say on the subject. Get to work.
Sans resolving the first question, we don't know if there is any evidence that might be acceptable or put the occurance of a miracle on the level of "most probably occurred"-
I've already gone over this with you. Your task is to:
- define what a "miracle" is
- produce at least one actual, examine-able, instance of that miracle.

Then you will have the beginnings of a good case for your resurrection claim that we can examine and move forward with. Until then, you're stuck. And I have no reason to believe you.
Are you agnostic about the miraculous? Is there a logical or metaphysical inconsistency with a supernatural occurance?
I am an atheist with respect to the "miraculous". You need to go study what atheism is. Let Me Google That For You:

http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutat...smBasics.htm#s1

I look forward to your proof of your claims.

LS

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04-09-2014 02:55 PM  4 years agoPost 2070
helimatt

rrElite Veteran

Lafayette, IN

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LS, the impass is that you will not commit to the possibility, so no proof or quality or quantity of evidence can be established.

I'm asking you to commit to something- one side or another on the question of possibility of the miraculous. I could not establish to your statisfaction that one or more actually happened (still happen ) unless you were of a mind to accept that miracles could occur.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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04-09-2014 03:00 PM  4 years agoPost 2071
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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LS, the impass is that you will not commit to the possibility, so no proof or quality or quantity of evidence can be established.
No. The problem is you're trying to evade your responsibility - namely to demonstrate your claim that miracles happen/are possible. Trying to shift the burden of proof to me will not work.
I'm asking you to commit to something- one side or another on the question of possibility of the miraculous. I could not establish to your statisfaction that one or more actually happened (still happen ) unless you were of a mind to accept that miracles could occur.
I'm under no obligation to commit to anything; I'm not the one making the claims.

You are the only one under any obligation and that obligation is to demonstrate your claim by producing a definition and a real-world instance. I've already instructed you on what you need to do at a minimum in order to be believable.

Sorry, but that's the situation you're in. I await your proof.

LS

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04-09-2014 03:01 PM  4 years agoPost 2072
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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LS, sorry just read your post again. A-theist, yes. So its very silly to discuss with you whether the Bible is true, or whether the claim that Jesus rose from the dead is factual; a miracle.

You could never believe this to be true as long as the basis for evaluation of any evidence or "proof" is THERE IS NO GOD. You would necessarily find any other expanation for anything we could produce. Even if a person were raised from the dead right before your very eyes, you would have to revert to a "naturalistic" explanation. If you could find none, the matter would likely be put down to insufficient information, or unfinished science.

How could God intervene, or His hand work wonders, if He is not?

Now, do you believe that it is not possible that God exists?

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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04-09-2014 03:02 PM  4 years agoPost 2073
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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I'm under no obligation to commit to anything
Then this discussion is dead.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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04-09-2014 03:04 PM  4 years agoPost 2074
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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You could never believe this to be true as long as the basis for evaluation of any evidence or "proof" is THERE IS NO GOD.
Wrong. That is not the atheist position. You need to go read the link I provided for you.
You would necessarily find any other expanation for anything we could produce
Wrong. You are the one under the burden of proof of your claims. Your proof does has to be superior to any other mundane explanations for the phenomena or events under discussion. That's how this works and how it always worked.

LS

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04-09-2014 03:05 PM  4 years agoPost 2075
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Then this discussion is dead.
Only because you can't or won't substantiate your claims. I don't have to just take your word for it on any of this, that's not my job.

You are the one refusing to provide any reason to believe anything you say. So, I don't believe you. You get an F for the day.

PS: for the reader's benefit, this is pretty much always where the Christian cuts and runs in all the past exchanges I've had with them on this matter of proving the reality of miracles and the supernatural. As soon as they see they will be required to actually show some evidence for their claims, they take their ball and go home with an excuse like the commitment one.

Not once have I ever seen a Christian ever honor their obligation to substantiate any of their claims. Never.

I almost know their script better than they do at this point.

LS

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04-09-2014 03:20 PM  4 years agoPost 2076
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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LS, we don't have a framework for the "proof" or "evidence" you say you require for the resurrection of Jesus. How can any substantiation be produced of sufficient quality, if we have not given a standard or framework to establish the required quality level. You will not commit to anything (and that is the very easy road to take).

When I design an engineered system, we work hard to establish and agree on the requirements, and how we will "prove" or substantiate that the requirments are met with sufficient rigor. Often there is a lot of back and forth. However the basis is that all stakeholders will commit to the possibility that the design requirements are adequate that the design data sufficient to prove the design meet the requirements.

If I cannot get a committment from the customer or the program on that, we cannot substantiate the design and had better not waste the resources.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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04-09-2014 03:22 PM  4 years agoPost 2077
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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LS, don't be unnesessarly insulting. I'm not working from a script but out of my sincere care for you and desire that you come to know the truth. I am not perfect or even very good, but trying.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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04-09-2014 03:25 PM  4 years agoPost 2078
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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LS, we don't have a framework for the "proof" or "evidence" you say you require for the resurrection of Jesus. How can any substantiation be produced of sufficient quality, if we have not given a standard or framework to establish the required quality level.
Can't you read? I practically handed you that framework; here, I'll give it to you again on another silver platter:
- provide a definition of "miracle". As an engineer you should understand this intimately?
- produce an instance of that miracle that we can examine.

Then we can proceed with looking at your claim. How much more simple does it have to be for you? These are the basic first steps we take to evaluate any claim to knowledge about anything in our world. Have you been living under a rock?
You will not commit to anything (and that is the very easy road to take).
No. All you're doing here is just begging me to take your word for it that "miracles are possible", rather than fulfill your obligation to demonstrate your claim that "miracles are possible". That's your job, not mine. I'm not obligated to do your job for you.
LS, don't be unnesessarly insulting.
As I said, you're trying to duck your responsibilities that accompany your claim. That's not respectable and I don't respond respectably to evasive tactics like that. Accept and fulfill your responsibilities and you may start getting more respectable responses.
This is the general problem you have interfacing with other atheists or others that don't believe the way you do. Begging for respect won't work; you have to earn it.

LS

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04-09-2014 03:49 PM  4 years agoPost 2079
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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SQUIRT's

Whoop's Forgot

GOD's Not DEAD : Sorry JESUS

greyeagle

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04-09-2014 04:21 PM  4 years agoPost 2080
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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I absolutely don't care what you believe as an individual. And so long as it doesn't effect me or others.
Thats right. My faith has nothing to do with you.

It does not affect you.
Its none of your business.
It should not bother you.
It's interesting to see you don't care that other nations will are and will continue to surpass yours.
Try explaining that.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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