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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › Understanding Evolution
09-20-2013 11:14 PM  5 years agoPost 541
Thomas L Erb

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Wow hoggy thats a great article just in case you missed it this was a related story from your link as well

http://www.news.com.au/technology/f...r-1226718392662

Who would have ever thunk it?
Thomas he has a name and regardless of if you like him or not he is a professor he is very well educated
Who are we talking about? The guy talking in the vid or the nameless regretful scientist ? If the latter what be his name?

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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09-21-2013 01:57 PM  5 years agoPost 542
Hoggy42

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Did you read the related article? Or just have an immature melt down over the word FART?

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09-22-2013 12:44 AM  5 years agoPost 543
Thomas L Erb

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Yes I did hoggy! But I do have a sense of humor as well did yours get put away? Get it back out!

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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09-22-2013 06:43 PM  5 years agoPost 544
raptormandan

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atp...
hey evo.....put this in your pipe and smoke it.....

Watch at YouTube

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09-22-2013 06:54 PM  5 years agoPost 545
raptormandan

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no need for lipo battery either....

Watch at YouTube

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09-22-2013 11:09 PM  5 years agoPost 546
tripergreenfeet

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Ah, the old bacterial flagellum argument eh!

This was part of Michael Behe's 1994 irreducible complexity definition of ID, which was then subsequently used in a court action through the mid to late nineties to introduce ID to the education curriculum of Texas? (Correct me if I have the wrong US state there.)

After years of creationist court action, and having all other points thrown out, the IC brigade hedged all bets on their "trump card", the bacterial flagellum. This too did not hold up, and was thrown out of court. The IC argument for ATP synthase being of ID was definitvely debunked back then.

And now there is this...

Logo 550SX, Uvular Logo 600SE, TT E820

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11-05-2013 01:21 PM  5 years agoPost 547
Hoggy42

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11-05-2013 01:58 PM  5 years agoPost 548
Thomas L Erb

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Simple adaptation at best. Divergent by definition is a Strech at best. Still a four legged lizard ,not a new animal type. Kinda like If I like my lizard I can keep my lizard unless he changes a little and then he is all of the sudden a new evolved "spiecies ". What about the ones that mated in the south. Hmmm they Change back to what they started as would be more believable but he stated they won't survive. He has not stated evidence that they won't survive other then a guess. Really!

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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11-06-2013 12:08 PM  5 years agoPost 549
Hoggy42

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Simple adaptation at best.
You have access to the internet yet you can't be bothered to do some simple research. Is what you are looking at is what's called a Ring Species. You could have Googled that. Simple adaptation at best you say guess what it's not the only ring species we can observe.
Ring Species: Salamanders:

Some critics of the theory of evolution argue that it doesn't convincingly explain the origin of new species. They say that members of one species couldn't become so different from other individuals through natural variation that they would become two separate non-interbreeding species.

One of the most powerful counters to that argument is the rare but fascinating phenomenon known as "ring species." This occurs when a single species becomes geographically distributed in a circular pattern over a large area. Immediately adjacent or neighboring populations of the species vary slightly but can interbreed. But at the extremes of the distribution -- the opposite ends of the pattern that link to form a circle -- natural variation has produced so much difference between the populations that they function as though they were two separate, non-interbreeding species.

In concept, this can be likened to a spiral-shaped parking garage. A driver notices only a gentle rise as he ascends the spiral, but after making one complete circle, he finds himself an entire floor above where he started.

A well-studied example of a ring species is the salamander Ensatina escholtzii of the Pacific Coast region of the United States. In Southern California, naturalists have found what look like two distinct species scrabbling across the ground. One is marked with strong, dark blotches in a cryptic pattern that camouflages it well. The other is more uniform and brighter, with bright yellow eyes, apparently in mimicry of the deadly poisonous western newt. These two populations coexist in some areas but do not interbreed -- and evidently cannot do so.

Moving up the state, the two populations are divided geographically, with the dark, cryptic form occupying the inland mountains and the conspicuous mimic living along the coast. Still farther to the north, in northern California and Oregon, the two populations merge, and only one form is found. In this area, it is clear that what looked like two separate species in the south are in fact a single species with several interbreeding subspecies, joined together in one continuous ring.

The evolutionary story that scientists have deciphered begins in the north, where the single form is found. This is probably the ancestral population. As it expanded south, the population became split by the San Joaquin Valley in central California, forming two different groups. In the Sierra Nevada the salamanders evolved their cryptic coloration. Along the coast they gradually became brighter and brighter.

The division was not absolute: some members of the sub-populations still find each other and interbreed to produce hybrids. The hybrids look healthy and vigorous, but they are neither well-camouflaged nor good mimics, so they are vulnerable to predators. They also seem to have difficulty finding mates, so the hybrids do not reproduce successfully. These two factors keep the two forms from merging, even though they can interbreed.

By the time the salamanders reached the southernmost part of California, the separation had caused the two groups to evolve enough differences that they had become reproductively isolated. In some areas the two populations coexist, closing the "ring," but do not interbreed. They are as distinct as though they were two separate species. Yet the entire complex of populations belongs to a single taxonomic species, Ensatina escholtzii.

Ring species, says biologist David Wake, who has studied Ensatina for more than 20 years, are a beautiful example of species formation in action. "All of the intermediate steps, normally missing, have been preserved, and that is what makes it so fascinating."
Found here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/l...2/l_052_05.html

But perhaps you might want to look into the Greenish Warbler.

Here I'll make it easy for you.

Watch at YouTube

Good luck lying or twisting your way around this one bud and your not going to find it at answersingenesis.org

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11-06-2013 01:02 PM  5 years agoPost 550
Thomas L Erb

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From your article:
By the time the salamanders reached the southernmost part of California, the separation had caused the two groups to evolve enough differences that they had become reproductively isolated. In some areas the two populations coexist, closing the "ring," but do not interbreed. They are as distinct as though they were two separate species. Yet the entire complex of populations belongs to a single taxonomic species, Ensatina escholtzii
Yet in the video near the end they show the result of the southern end of the ring have interbread. So which is it ? Can they or can they not?
Good luck lying or twisting your way around this one bud and your not going to find it at answersingenesis.org
I'm not a democrat,just asking the obvious questions you ignore.

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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11-06-2013 01:26 PM  5 years agoPost 551
Thomas L Erb

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Good luck, your not going to find it at answersingenesis.org
You sound so sure that I can't ,but alas you are incorrect again. They have much to say at answersingenesis.com . You should check,it out, you might learn somthing.
Evolution is claimed to occur through inherited alterations of traits via genetic changes. These changes are caused mainly by mutations and the fluctuations in allele frequencies (different forms of genes) from generation to generation. Natural selection then acts upon these changes by selecting for those that improve the sexual fitness of a species.
However, the observed fluctuations in allele frequencies are insufficient to give rise to the various kinds of animals found in the fossil record and today. While such changes may cause finch beaks or the color of peppered moths to fluctuate, they are not capable of the mass changes evolutionists claim happened since the first life appeared. Knowing this, evolutionists often appeal to mutations as the driving force of the evolutionary process.
Mutations, which are heritable changes to DNA, cannot add the information needed for original structures to appear (e.g., lungs, scales, brains). They do, however, play a part in revealing and controlling the variation within each kind—and also in a number of diseases (an aspect of the Curse). There is some debate among creationists as to the randomness of certain mutations.
The observed evidence in the present concerning genetic changes supports the Genesis text that God created all the animal kinds and human kind during the Creation Week. God gave the animal kinds a robust enough genetic foundation to form numerous species and to adapt to changing environments (e.g., the length of finch beaks). None of the observed processes (e.g., natural selection, mutations, genetic flow) can ever cause one kind (baramin) of animal to transform into another kind.

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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11-06-2013 01:27 PM  5 years agoPost 552
Hoggy42

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Yet in the video near the end they show the result of the southern end of the ring have interbread. So which is it ? Can they or can they not?
Also from the article I posted this is the paragraph above the one you quoted.
The division was not absolute: some members of the sub-populations still find each other and interbreed to produce hybrids. The hybrids look healthy and vigorous, but they are neither well-camouflaged nor good mimics, so they are vulnerable to predators. They also seem to have difficulty finding mates, so the hybrids do not reproduce successfully. These two factors keep the two forms from merging, even though they can interbreed.
Answer your question? I'm not hiding anything it's all there for you to read.

Now the Greenish Warbler can not interbreed at the end of the ring.

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11-06-2013 01:30 PM  5 years agoPost 553
Hoggy42

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Good luck, your not going to find it at answersingenesis.org
You sound so sure that I can't ,but alas you are incorrect again. They have much to say at answersingenesis.com . You should check,it out, you might learn somthing.
Evolution is claimed to occur through inherited alterations of traits via genetic changes. These changes are caused mainly by mutations and the fluctuations in allele frequencies (different forms of genes) from generation to generation. Natural selection then acts upon these changes by selecting for those that improve the sexual fitness of a species.
However, the observed fluctuations in allele frequencies are insufficient to give rise to the various kinds of animals found in the fossil record and today. While such changes may cause finch beaks or the color of peppered moths to fluctuate, they are not capable of the mass changes evolutionists claim happened since the first life appeared. Knowing this, evolutionists often appeal to mutations as the driving force of the evolutionary process.
Mutations, which are heritable changes to DNA, cannot add the information needed for original structures to appear (e.g., lungs, scales, brains). They do, however, play a part in revealing and controlling the variation within each kind—and also in a number of diseases (an aspect of the Curse). There is some debate among creationists as to the randomness of certain mutations.
The observed evidence in the present concerning genetic changes supports the Genesis text that God created all the animal kinds and human kind during the Creation Week. God gave the animal kinds a robust enough genetic foundation to form numerous species and to adapt to changing environments (e.g., the length of finch beaks). None of the observed processes (e.g., natural selection, mutations, genetic flow) can ever cause one kind (baramin) of animal to transform into another kind.
Seems I'm right no mention of Ring Species there

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11-06-2013 01:36 PM  5 years agoPost 554
Xterra

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.

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11-06-2013 01:49 PM  5 years agoPost 555
Thomas L Erb

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Hoggy here is a question for you to ponder. Reguardless of how many of any kind of plant,animal or human or thing, never ever has there been an exact duplicate. Would not natural selection keep the best and lose the rest? Would it not tend to find the best and keep it which should lead to replication? Yet everything in the universe is made up of the exact same molecular structure. Exact replication in origin. Hmmmmm how can this be?

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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11-06-2013 01:54 PM  5 years agoPost 556
Thomas L Erb

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Simple hoggy ,your article says the calafornia lizards don't can't interbread, the vid shows they can. Why! Which is it? Warbles are a seperate question.

Hmmm is this what they call bait and switch?

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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11-06-2013 02:15 PM  5 years agoPost 557
Hoggy42

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Are you blind or just stupid or flat out lying?
your article says the calafornia lizards don't can't interbread, the vid shows they can. Why! Which is it?
Again from the article I posted
The division was not absolute: some members of the sub-populations still find each other and interbreed to produce hybrids. The hybrids look healthy and vigorous, but they are neither well-camouflaged nor good mimics, so they are vulnerable to predators. They also seem to have difficulty finding mates, so the hybrids do not reproduce successfully. These two factors keep the two forms from merging, even though they can interbreed.
The article doesn't say they can't interbreed. It says from the pargragh you quoted.
In some areas the two populations coexist, closing the "ring," but do not interbreed.
DO NOT INTERBREED not CANT. These have very different meanings.

So are you just ignorant or are you dumb? or are you deliberately twisting it like a Democrat as you put it sounds like you'd make a good one if that's the case.

And no the Warblers are not a bait and switch both are ring species both demonstrate evolution. I know creationists have no answer to this but that's not really a surprise.

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11-06-2013 02:35 PM  5 years agoPost 558
Thomas L Erb

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It says they don't ! It doesn't say they can or can't it says dont. Make up your mind . Either way they are still lizards! I can have the same result by breeding dogs! Where is the evolution?

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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11-07-2013 01:29 PM  5 years agoPost 559
Hoggy42

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Ok so lets go slow seeing as you have a similar understanding of English as Esco. You seem to be really struggling with this "Can Not" or "Can't" "Do not" "Does not" or "Don't". Please Google the definitions of these words. I'm now going to use them in some sentences for you let's see if you can follow.

"Thomas L Erb Does not have anal sex with men."
Pretty simple statement I would think this means it's something that you don't do. It doesn't mean you "can't"
next
"Thomas L Erb Can not have anal sex with men."
This suggests that it's not possible why maybe you have had your penis removed and your anus surgical closed.

Got it? let's get back on subject

you said
It says they don't ! It doesn't say they can or can't it says dont.
Ok so I'm going to quote this again but highlight the parts in red that you need to take note of.
The division was not absolute: some members of the sub-populations still find each other and interbreed to produce hybrids. The hybrids look healthy and vigorous, but they are neither well-camouflaged nor good mimics, so they are vulnerable to predators. They also seem to have difficulty finding mates, so the hybrids do not reproduce successfully. These two factors keep the two forms from merging, even though they can interbreed.
So is what this says Thomas is that yes they can interbreed and it has happened so it's genetically possible but the hybrids are not very successful.

The example of the Greenish Warbler is showing you what happens next when we reach the end of the ring these birds are now so different from each other that they can not interbreed it's now genetically impossible. The Warbler is if you like a step more advanced than the Salamanders. So no it's not a separate question.

Next
Either way they are still lizards! I can have the same result by breeding dogs!
Great it seems you are paying some attention. Now pay attention when I say this if a Lizard's offspring was anything other than a Lizard it would prove the Theory wrong. Just as if you breed dogs and got anything other than dogs would.

Now before you start talking again. I think you would agree that Horses Donkeys and Zebras are all different species. With these animals sometimes interbreeding takes place, when this happens the offspring are usually sterile. You'll probably even agree that they have a common ancestor.

Hmmmm
Hoggy here is a question for you to ponder. Reguardless of how many of any kind of plant,animal or human or thing, never ever has there been an exact duplicate. Would not natural selection keep the best and lose the rest? Would it not tend to find the best and keep it which should lead to replication? Yet everything in the universe is made up of the exact same molecular structure. Exact replication in origin. Hmmmmm how can this be?
I guess I would site identical twins, of course identical twins have identical DNA.

Other then that judging by the rest of your post I doubt very much that you have even the slightest grip on the Theory Of Evolution hardly a surprise as it seems you are struggling with basic English.

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11-07-2013 02:07 PM  5 years agoPost 560
Thomas L Erb

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Pretty simple statement I would think this means it's something that you don't do. It doesn't mean you "can't"
next
"Thomas L Erb Can not have anal sex with men."
This suggests that it's not possible why maybe you have had your penis removed and your anus surgical closed.
Wow you really have stooped to a low that I didn't think you could do. I'm sorry dude but you just lost any respect I did have for you. You need to get a grip and do some self evaluation. Get some help if you can.

I asked simple questions and get nothing but this ? I undestand later in the article they state that the did mate. That was my point they stated they don't and then they did. Simple as that, nothing more nothing less.

As far as the twins ,yes they have identical DNA which I stated is part of the molecular makeup of EVERYTHING around us yet the result is a distinctly different person . NEVER has there been an exact duplicate. Why? Do you understand this or should I type slower or get sign type?

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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