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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › Understanding Evolution
09-04-2013 05:42 AM  5 years agoPost 501
Volcano

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chicago

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Schools do not teach evolution as fact. And only morons cannot understand that they dont know it all. In 20 years or less the current understanding of evolution will be turned on its ear/ repeat throughout the future.

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09-04-2013 06:13 AM  5 years agoPost 502
outhouse

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auburn ca

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Schools do not teach evolution as fact
They teach it as scientific theory, which takes facts to make such a hypothesis work. These facts are taught.

Do you know of any nontheistic colleges that do not teach biology?
And only morons cannot understand that they dont know it all.
We do not know every aspect of evolution 100%.

But the fact life evolves, is not questioned by rational people at all.
In 20 years or less the current understanding of evolution will be turned on its ear/ repeat throughout the future
No it will not my friend.

Life evolves, this will never change. How that process happens in detail however will be added to.

Exactly the way we will someday understand gravity better.

But the fact still remains the apple falls.

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09-04-2013 07:15 AM  5 years agoPost 503
Volcano

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Acording to your idiocy gmo corn evolved from regular corn. You are like the creationists you hate, you think humans are the top of the universe in intelligence. Doesnt it make more sense that we came from somewhere else?

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09-04-2013 03:07 PM  5 years agoPost 504
Hoggy42

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Australia

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Helimatt,

Interesting link is there any reason why I should take it seriously?
Gut Morphology
A total of 38 museum-curated lizards (14 from Pod Mrc¡aru
and 24 from Pod Kopis¡te) were dissected, and their intestinal
tracts were removed, from the posterior point of the esophagus
to the most posterior end of the rectum. Lengths of the stomach,
small intestine (sum of duodenum, jejunum, and ileum),
and hindgut (sum of cecum and colon) were measured using electronic calipers (Mitutoyo, CD-15CPX, precision p 0.01
mm), taking care that all elements were uncoiled but not
stretched. Each segment was measured three times consecutively,
and the average of the three measurements was used in
the statistical analyses. The segments were emptied, separated
from mesenteries, and weighed on an electronic balance (Mettler
Toledo, MT5, precision p 1 g). The hindguts were opened,
and the presence and number of cecal valves was recorded.
The same measurements and observations on gut morphology
were carried out on eight males and 12 females of the Pod Mrc¡aru
population after they had been fed an exclusively arthropod diet
for 15 wk. These 20 lizards had died of oxygen deficiency following
a power cut in the animal house at Antwerp University.
None of the animals were killed for the purpose of this study
Just so you can see my point with this quote they started with 38 Lizards 14 from Pod Mrc¡aru and 24 from Pod Kopis¡te. And they done the measurements and observations on gut morphology were carried out on eight males and 12 females of the Pod Mrc¡aru so they had 14 Lizards at the start and ended up with 20? of the Pod Mrcaru animals.

It also concerns me that a lab of this type would not have backup power. It concerns me further that they died of oxygen deficiency from a power cut after all these lizards breath normal air why and what was being pumped to them.

So your entire augment here is about adaption and not evolution well maybe you should read this because they go hand in hand. You also need to understand these lizards are hatched this way with the adaptions. They are not adapting once hatched but before good luck explaining that.
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...DIljxjIVdeN4U7Q
You may also like to explain these Lizards that have moved from laying eggs to live birth
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ive-birth-eggs/
Honestly Helimatt you need to stop trying to change facts to suit your world view. I take it your a young earth creationist? Sorry your wrong. You also need to brush up on your fossil knowledge.

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09-04-2013 03:16 PM  5 years agoPost 505
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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Hoggy, I can't answer for a lab in Antwerp wrt backup power etc.

The numbers do add up- read the report again.

Lastly- the lizard discussion was begun by you- and it is very interesting. You posted it as proof of evolution. I clarified the definition of evolution as being genetic changes in a population leading to speciation (Berkeley's definition, but a common one). Then we showed by several scientific inquiries on this lizard experiment that there was no genetic change, the body changes were "plastic" response to environment and reverted back when the diet was changed back. No genetic changes detected. All structures that adapted existed in all lizards from both islands.

SO NO EVOLUTION. QED.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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09-04-2013 03:26 PM  5 years agoPost 506
helimatt

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Hey all, let me sum up:

1. Whale "evolution" is not proven, but a tenuous (to be generous) construct. Some well known evolutionary biologists invented body structures based on incomplete bones to keep the dream alive. They state that early whales ancestors were "LAND WHALES" whose only claim to ancestry is similar inner ear structure, but had no other features for water-dwelling mammals. Blind faith anyone?

2. Hominid evolution is in disarray. Because the pieces don't fit, and hominids that were once thought to walk upright, turns out probably didn't, much. Neanderthals are humans, of a race that has died out it seems.

3. Lizards of Pod Mrcaru didn't evolve, even if Dawkins thinks this is a great example of evolution. They did some amazing adaptation, based on the genetic coding already within their genome.

4. Vestigal organs (like for instance wisdom teeth discussed here, but appendix, whale pelvis, etc) are not useless, but have definite purpose in the animals that are now demonstrated.

5. Evolutionists have demonstrated that they are dogmatic, idiosyncratic, opposed to challenges, and cannot stand creationists/theists, so openly ridicule them. They also have a lot of faith and are followers of a religion of sorts.

We could get into geology- that would be a great new thread.

I'm done. Matt out.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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09-04-2013 07:15 PM  5 years agoPost 507
outhouse

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I'm done. Matt out.
Yes you were done before you started.

You have a closed mind and refuse modern knowledge and modern education, making you a embarrassment to humanity.

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09-04-2013 07:20 PM  5 years agoPost 508
outhouse

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Acording to your idiocy gmo corn evolved from regular corn. You are like the creationists you hate, you think humans are the top of the universe in intelligence. Doesnt it make more sense that we came from somewhere else?
Your not that bright are you?

Top of the universe? No. we are still primitive species similar to the primates we evolved from.

Panspermia is a possibility, Due to the vast amount of space involved. I don't buy it 100% yet.

I don't hate creationist, Im embarrassed though. Some not all are stupid and want to remain that way through willful ignorance.

But many creationist are smart, unlike you they keep their mouths shut in a scientific debate when they are severely unarmed intellectually.

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09-04-2013 08:19 PM  5 years agoPost 509
TurboRacer

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FL

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You guys are still bitching back and forth?! hahahaa

Like a damn broken record in here. Now I know why I bailed a long time ago. hahaaa

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09-05-2013 02:39 PM  5 years agoPost 510
Hoggy42

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Australia

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Matt I don't need a calculator to see that doesn't add up. There are many problems with that report I could pick the eyes out of it but it would take time.
I'm done. Matt out.
Ok that's cool I'm not. Moving on now to DARWINIAN MEDICINE.
I was thinking about this today while waiting at the Doctors office on the table there was a book on the Early Humans looked like it was aimed at around 10 year olds fantastic in Australia doctors can do that without fear of losing patients or religious outrage. And it reminded me of something Dawkins said and I don't have the quote in front of me but something along the lines of if your doctor doesn't believe and understand Evolution get a new doctor.

This article can only be called basic on the topic and there are RR users that work in this field and have a better understanding then me. So if you want to jump in and explain anything please do.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071402/
Below are the Summary points
•Darwinian medicine asks why the body is not better designed
•Obesity and its complications arise because our body is not designed for a modern environment
•Natural selection adjusts virulence levels to whatever is optimal for the pathogen
•Defenses, such as fever, cough, and anxiety, are painful but are useful in evolutionary terms
•An evolutionary view of medicine sees the body as a product of natural selection, extraordinary in many ways but also flawed for evolutionary reasons
At the end of the Day Evolution works

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09-06-2013 11:45 AM  5 years agoPost 511
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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From your report summary
Obesity and its complications arise because our body is not designed for a modern environment
Wow I would say they need more study on this. Some will say it is an emotional issue but it is pretty easy to see the physical reason we have obesity is because they eat to much and don't excersise enough period . To state other wise is a rediculous stretch. I will give a very minimal amount of cases due to a medical condition but that's it.
•An evolutionary view of medicine sees the body as a product of natural selection, extraordinary in many ways but also flawed for evolutionary reasons
Extraordinary but flawed? By what standard? Evolution doesnt select anything did you not say so yourself? So this means we are smarter then evolution? So if so and we are smarter then evolution and we change something that effects evolution what does that make us?

Sound about as confusing as deciding what and athiest is .

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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09-06-2013 12:33 PM  5 years agoPost 512
Dusty1000

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Glasgow, U.K.

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Dusty thanks for the vids I know there is also some great Big Cat vids showing their hunting which also shows fantastic team work I remember watching one on 3 cheetahs brothers that worked as a team 1 was killed by a snake and the other 2 had to learn to hunt again brilliant stuff.
It's interesting how creationists tend to avoid documentaries such as these, just like Thomas did earlier. I suppose it's easier for them to simply believe that man rules over animals, and that animals only act on instinct, rather than acknowledge that some animals keep other animals as pets just like humans do, and that they are also capable of making rational decisions.

Particularly when it comes to monkeys, as creationists don't like to consider the fact that some animals are more closely related to humans than others, because that would conflict with their Biblical worldview of the separation between humans and animals.

Dusty

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09-06-2013 12:54 PM  5 years agoPost 513
Dusty1000

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Sound about as confusing as deciding what and athiest is .
Theist: someone who believes in a God or gods.

Atheist: someone who does not believe in a God or gods.

Is that easy enough to understand?

The only thing to note is that not believing in a God or gods, is not the same as believing that there is no God or gods.

Some atheists might believe that there is no God or gods, but such a belief is not necessary to qualify one as an atheist, because it is a belief.

All that is necessary to qualify one as an atheist, is a lack of belief in a God or gods.

Just like you do not believe in the Hindu gods, for example, atheists do not believe in the Hindu gods, your God, or any other God or gods.

Dusty

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09-06-2013 02:35 PM  5 years agoPost 514
Hoggy42

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Australia

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Thomas,
I wonder did you read the article I posted the link from.
From your report summary
Obesity and its complications arise because our body is not designed for a modern environment
Wow I would say they need more study on this. Some will say it is an emotional issue but it is pretty easy to see the physical reason we have obesity is because they eat to much and don't excersise enough period . To state other wise is a rediculous stretch. I will give a very minimal amount of cases due to a medical condition but that's it.
From the article,
An initial answer is simple. In the environment in which we evolved, natural selection shaped appetite regulation mechanisms to ensure that we survived periods of famine. In those ancient times, eating required walking for hours each day to get food, a caloric cost that made it impossible for most people to accumulate much surplus as fat.4 Exposure to intermittent periods of food shortage sets off a system that prepares for a coming famine by increasing appetite and basal weight above the starting point. Dieting activates the same system, so weight can rebound to above what it was when the diet began. When young people try to lose weight by using willpower to drastically limit their food intake, their regulation mechanisms react with a response that is adaptive: they often gorge themselves. These episodes of uncontrolled eating can make the dieter even more fearful of becoming obese, so still further efforts of will arouse the mechanism more strongly, setting in cycle the positive feedback spiral we see in anorexia and bulimia.

As for our food preferences, one would think we would be designed to eat what is good for us. The system would work fine if we lived on the African savanna. In the natural environment, fat, salt, and sugar are in such short supply that when they are encountered, the useful response is to consume them. Fat provides twice as many calories per gram as carbohydrates. Sugar is often associated with ripe fruits, and seeking it out was usually beneficial. Now that we can choose our foods, we prefer what was in short supply on the African savanna.

We also choose our levels of exercise to minimize caloric expenditure—a wise strategy in the Paleolithic era when wasting calories could bring death. This tendency to be sedentary, in combination with our preferences for large amounts of high-calorie, high-fat food, has resulted in an epidemic of atherosclerotic disease. Natural selection will eventually fix such design problems, but it will take hundreds or thousands of generations to do so.
I understand that this is hard for you to grasp but this way of living is visible today in many wild animals. To give you one example Tigers living in their natural environment have to hunt in the process of this they may spend hours walking searching and then finally chasing their pray. Sometimes they are successful and other times they are not. Simply put when they are not successful they have expended energy for nothing so when they do eat they eat what they can to have reserves. When they don't need to be on the move they sleep/rest. Sometimes Tigers will go days without eating. Now in their natural environment it's pretty hard to get fat you'll notice Tigers are normally very fit looking animals.

Now if you humans still lived in the African savanna and had to hunt and forage for food it would be hard to get fat and it would make sense to eat what you could when you could and to rest when you did not need to be active if you wanted to survive.
Extraordinary but flawed? By what standard?
We've been over this Thomas the Human body has many things that no design engineer of any respectable standard would never design. Such as the Human throat.
Evolution doesnt select anything did you not say so yourself?
No is what I said was evolution doesn't decide anything. (Page 25) It is not a thought process. It takes place through natural selection. I've got to ask if I recommend some of Dawkins books would you consider reading them?. No not the God Delusion. Or do I need to keep trying to explain it for you?

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09-06-2013 04:51 PM  5 years agoPost 515
outhouse

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Hoggy you cannot change Toms "preconcieved conclusion" to our origins with reason or knowledge.

He did not use those to gain said position.

He is really realy old, and if you beat him down in the street with a sack full of evolution, he would still deny it.

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09-06-2013 05:30 PM  5 years agoPost 516
Thomas L Erb

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Hoggy we are not talking about tigers here we are talking about fat humans.
In those ancient times, eating required walking for hours each day to get food, a caloric cost that made it impossible for most people to accumulate much surplus as fat.
Ok and you know this how? This is a pretty blanket statement . Todays African tribe live near where the food is. They may have to go a long way to hunt but they live closest to all other food sources do they not? Yes the tiger move to hunt but they live wherever ever they are they don't build a house and create a home base. Their pack lives where to food is.yes they will return to an area. Humans establish (most all of us anyway) a home from which we work, eat and raise our familys.
As far as animals working together ,they only do this for survival reasons. When was he last time the cheeta ganged up and played a game of ball aginst the monkeys? Animals live in groups ,hunt in groups and protect their group from other preditors all the time this is instinctual!

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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09-07-2013 12:32 AM  5 years agoPost 517
outhouse

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auburn ca

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I caught Matt lying again in the other thread.

Talking about trex organic matter ignorantly.

I gave him a complete scientific breakdown

The inside of the bones were demineralized first.

Its not like they cracked open the bones and found organic matter, like these numbskulls think organic matter could last even hundreds of years let alone thousands or millions.

This is common in many fossils, and he was shown this but continues to be a dishonest theist, embarrassing humanity.

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09-07-2013 01:14 AM  5 years agoPost 518
Gearhead

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You guys are still bitching back and forth?! hahahaa
Like a damn broken record in here. Now I know why I bailed a long time ago. hahaaa

and only 674 pages to go

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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09-07-2013 03:30 PM  5 years agoPost 519
Hoggy42

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Australia

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Hoggy we are not talking about tigers here we are talking about fat humans.
Come on Tom you know it's an example of a modern animal used to present a real life account of how this works. You do realise we are Animals don't you?
Ok and you know this how? This is a pretty blanket statement . Todays African tribe live near where the food is.
It stands to all reason that todays modern tribes have a far more considerable knowledge to those of the first humans?

This stands to reason all wild animals go through this. When I say wild I mean those not effected by modern man.

All Humans originate from Africa that is a fact it has been proven. So it's clear they did not all go back to a central point (home)
As far as animals working together ,they only do this for survival reasons. When was he last time the cheeta ganged up and played a game of ball aginst the monkeys? Animals live in groups ,hunt in groups and protect their group from other preditors all the time this is instinctual!
From an Evolution stand point these animals are not going to overtake us short of a large event that wipes us out. So it's unlikely they will ever play ball. For that matter what reason would they have to play ball? we only do it because we are no longer in a fight for survival and have spare time.

Mammals were never able to get ahead of the Dinosaurs they ruled the earth for around 160 million years only dying out 65million years ago. The Dinosaurs were the and still are the most successful creature to ever have ruled the earth. We have many millions of years to catch up.

BTW Tigers are solitary animals. Your world is fascinating you should learn about it.

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09-08-2013 03:00 AM  5 years agoPost 520
outhouse

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"KANSAS CITY, KS—As the debate over the teaching of evolution in public schools continues, a new controversy over the science curriculum arose Monday in this embattled Midwestern state. Scientists from the Evangelical Center For Faith-Based Reasoning are now asserting that the long-held "theory of gravity" is flawed, and they have responded to it with a new theory of Intelligent Falling.

The ECFR, in conjunction with the Christian Coalition and other Christian conservative action groups, is calling for public-school curriculums to give equal time to the Intelligent Falling theory. They insist they are not asking that the theory of gravity be banned from schools, but only that students be offered both sides of the issue "so they can make an informed decision."

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