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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › Understanding Evolution
08-31-2013 06:39 AM  5 years agoPost 461
outhouse

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08-31-2013 03:01 PM  5 years agoPost 462
Hoggy42

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Helimatt,
In regards to the Lizards there is a lot we don't know about how DNA works. That said call it whatever you like they grew bigger different shaped heads they grew cecal valves in their gut and they hatch this way. That's evolution if you claim it's adaption please go out and find another animal that has grown a different head and gut to suit it's environment. Better yet change your diet and do it yourself.

Thomas,
My question is why do they see the human throat as having problems? Mine seems to work fine.
Just because something works pretty well doesn't mean it's optimal. I'm pretty confident I could go to a primary school and ask young kids to design plumbing not telling them what it was for, That I had 2 different systems that needed to be connected one to a intake port and the other to a intake/exhaust port and not have them go to the same place. If it were optimal you'd be able to breath and eat (Swallow) at the same time. What's wrong with it you ask well it's easy to choke I think numbers in the USA are around 3000 per year die from choking on food of course that doesn't include those who are brain damaged from choking or the numbers that go through emergency rooms. Of course then people die on their own vomit the list goes on. No intelligent life form would design that. However when we trace back through evolution it's possible to see how it happened.

I did want to ask you though Thomas did you watch the video of the Muslim girls? how did it make you feel after all you know what they are being told by their religion is a lie. Does it make you angry to see their future being stolen from them? (And I'm talking about here on earth the only future that can be confirmed) does it sadden you a little?

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08-31-2013 03:36 PM  5 years agoPost 463
Phaedrus

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there is a lot we don't know about how DNA works.
And hence you must be wrong and God created Heaven and Earth is 6 days.

AMA Leader Member
Go FASST, or Go Home!!
Team Futaba

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08-31-2013 04:22 PM  5 years agoPost 464
Thomas L Erb

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I did want to ask you though Thomas did you watch the video of the Muslim girls? how did it make you feel after all you know what they are being told by their religion is a lie. Does it make you angry to see their future being stolen from them? (And I'm talking about here on earth the only future that can be confirmed) does it sadden you a little?
Ok it a little off topic but hey your the op
Of course it saddens me about everything that the Muslim people get taught. Their are many lies taught in many associations be it a religion or a collage campus. I don't see the difference a lie is a lie ,period. As stated many time here I QUESTION EVERYTHING! I am a equal opportunity questioner. There are just as many lies told everywhere every day due to the condition of the human spirit.

This is a great reason to doubt evolution as well as we humans are the only spiecies on this planet that will decieve another member of our spiecies .

I don't discount everything that evolution seems to prove but I choose to believe different then you. Look at how many studies have been proven wrong only to show the study was only done to get money and not down for the betterment on mandkind.

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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08-31-2013 09:26 PM  5 years agoPost 465
Dusty1000

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This is a great reason to doubt evolution as well as we humans are the only spiecies on this planet that will decieve another member of our spiecies .
Scientists studying the development of co-operative behaviour in apes and monkeys believe the animals developed the ability to lie and deceive in order to form coalitions, get food and mate.

'Ultimately, our ability to convincingly lie to each other may have evolved as a direct result of our cooperative nature,' the researchers claim - and they say deception is still 'rife' in the animal kingdom.

The team analysed behaviour records of 24 different primate species, and found deceptive behaviour is more common in species that co-operate more.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...l#ixzz2da2EfWpN
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
So Thomas, do you think monkeys might also have a sin nature?

Dusty

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08-31-2013 11:31 PM  5 years agoPost 466
raptormandan

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evo
you guys all crack me up.....the conversation has gone nowhere..nobody is going to convert either to other side.. so really what is the point.....wicked funny......we are all on a ball of dirt flying through space..enjoy the ride...rmd

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09-01-2013 12:09 AM  5 years agoPost 467
Climax

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we are all on a ball of dirt flying through space..enjoy the ride
So true, love it!!

Electronics, Physics, Helicopters, Fixing Things...

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09-01-2013 12:41 AM  5 years agoPost 468
Thomas L Erb

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So Thomas, do you think monkeys might also have a sin nature?
No I don't ,do you? If so what other animal do you think does ?

I haven't seen any monkeys selling fake watches on the corner yet,have you?

They Believe ?

I believe you like eggs in your shoes but is it so?

I guess to clarify the observation there are animals that will decieve others just as the killdeer will fake wounded to draw others away from their nest. These are instinctual reactions for survival reasons where as humans will intentionally lie for no other reason to be hurtful or or to hide their own poor behavior . If you got caught in a lie you suffer the concequences of your lie, not so in the animal kingdom. What's the divorce rate for chimps lately? How many are in jail for stealing? How many cheat on theiUr taxes?

They believe it is also happening in robots
Really now that gives so much more credibility to the article you quoted

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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09-01-2013 04:29 AM  5 years agoPost 469
outhouse

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Tom, there are some dang evil monkeys lol.

Have you seen how vicious some of them can be in the wild?

They do use some very primitive forms of tools and have some limited emotions, and they have a conscious mind, just not anywhere near developed and advanced as ours.

Cats and killer whales also kill for fun, but if im not mistaken killer whales are using it as a tool to teach their young.

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09-01-2013 04:45 AM  5 years agoPost 470
drdot

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fwiw..

" They do use some very primitive forms of tools and have some limited emotions, and they have a conscious mind, just not anywhere near developed and advanced as ours."

So these were the protoliberals, then...?

BC

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09-01-2013 05:09 AM  5 years agoPost 471
Thomas L Erb

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Yes cats and killer whales do kill but not just for fun . As you stated they kill to teach their young as well as cat do. Most of my barn cats kill mice all the time but is rare that they ever eat them because their need to eat to survive has been adapted due to the fact that they get fed on a regular basis.

I agree that the monkeys have a couscious mind but there is no evidence of self awareness. My dog has a conscious mind but is only aware of how to react to her surroundings to survive.

Hoggy you stated the lizards grew new heads. You got a link to this? Sound like somthing from the. Men in black you shoot their head off and it grows back.

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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09-01-2013 09:42 AM  5 years agoPost 472
Dusty1000

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No I don't ,do you? If so what other animal do you think does ?
Well how about lions and tigers? They would kill you given half a chance!
I haven't seen any monkeys selling fake watches on the corner yet,have you?
Because monkeys just steal whatever they want, they have no need for money. Ever seen a monkey do an honest day's work out of choice?
They Believe?
This one looks like it's praying. As it's in Pakistan, chances are it's a Muslim. Of course, it has to be kept on a leash though, just like the police restrain human criminals to stop them escaping.

Watch at YouTube

What's the divorce rate for chimps lately?
They don't get married in the first place. ALL baby chimps are born to unmarried mothers.
How many are in jail for stealing?
Have you never heard the phrase ''never trust a monkey''?

Most monkeys that live in our societies are kept behind bars.
How many cheat on theiUr taxes?
Ever tried to get a monkey to pay tax? Human criminals are more likely to pay tax than monkeys are!

Come on Thomas, get real!

Dusty

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09-01-2013 10:05 AM  5 years agoPost 473
Dusty1000

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Most of my barn cats kill mice all the time but is rare that they ever eat them because their need to eat to survive has been adapted due to the fact that they get fed on a regular basis.
So they kill mice for fun, and you don't think they have a sin nature?
I agree that the monkeys have a couscious mind but there is no evidence of self awareness.
Here are some chimps demonstrating strategic thinking.

Watch at YouTube

My dog has a conscious mind but is only aware of how to react to her surroundings to survive.
Ah, but monkeys are more intelligent than dogs, as they are more closely related to us. Have you ever seen a dog keep a monkey as a pet? Well, monkeys keep dogs as pets.

Watch at YouTube

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09-01-2013 03:20 PM  5 years agoPost 474
Hoggy42

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Thomas,
Hoggy you stated the lizards grew new heads. You got a link to this? Sound like somthing from the. Men in black you shoot their head off and it grows back.
I first posted about the Lizards of Pod Mrcaru back at page 13 here is the link again for you.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com....-evolution.html
Helimatt then posted this link to the study which was also very good.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2290806/
I think you misunderstand they didn't lose their heads and grow new ones. They evolved new heads and guts over a period of 36years or shorter.

This is evolution you can see it has happened in front of us.

raptormandan,
you guys all crack me up.....the conversation has gone nowhere..nobody is going to convert either to other side.. so really what is the point
The point is that even though many of these people will never change their position at least they have now had to look at the evidence. Thomas said early on that evolution is nothing but a series of gaps that have never been filled with anything but guesses and conjecture.

It looks more like the Christian defence of creationism is nothing but guesses and conjecture.

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09-01-2013 06:09 PM  5 years agoPost 475
outhouse

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It looks more like the Christian defence of creationism is nothing but guesses and conjecture.
Faith alone, and nothing else at all.

We do not intend to get through to the old men in this forum that will die with their faith.

We post for those very few that have a open mind, that still have the ability to use reason and knowledge to accept advise from those who educate the world to modern science.

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09-01-2013 09:30 PM  5 years agoPost 476
Thomas L Erb

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They Believe?
That was a quote from your article. It references that the scientist " believe" but do not state any facts to the matter. What do you think about the fact that they also believe that robots have the same traits? Really?

So if you believe monkeys have awareness do you also believe in the possiablillity of some form of the planet of the apes Scenaro ?

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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09-02-2013 12:46 PM  5 years agoPost 477
Dusty1000

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It references that the scientist " believe" but do not state any facts to the matter.
Ah, but they did. They said:

''The team analysed behaviour records of 24 different primate species, and found deceptive behaviour is more common in species that co-operate more.''
What do you think about the fact that they also believe that robots have the same traits? Really?
They didn't say they ''believe'' robots have the same traits. They said:

'It's even been shown to evolve in robots.'

Here are some details:

http://www.gatech.edu/newsroom/release.html?nid=60881
So if you believe monkeys have awareness do you also believe in the possiablillity of some form of the planet of the apes Scenaro ?
No.

Dusty

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09-02-2013 12:57 PM  5 years agoPost 478
Dusty1000

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It looks more like the Christian defence of creationism is nothing but guesses and conjecture.
Indeed, together with ignorance, evasiveness and falsehood.

These debates also serve to demonstrate the ways in which creationists close their minds to the findings of scientists, and any other facts that are inconsistent with their beliefs.

Thomas' response to my posts above is a classic example.

First of all he takes the word ''believe'' and applies it to what the article says that scientists have found, which is a disingenuous argument as anyone can see.

Then he ignores the videos which show chimps demonstrating strategic thinking, and baboons keeping dogs as pets. No matter how much I force the issue, of course he won't concede that monkeys have some human traits.

I've participated in enough of these threads to be able to tell what arguments creationists are likely to make. A typical creationist argument regarding monkeys having human traits for example, would likely concentrate on human traits that monkeys don't have, while refusing to acknowledge the ones they do have.

Creationists argue that animals act only by instinct, while man acts by rational thought. Yet besides the fact that animals can be shown to act by rational thought, these threads show that the thoughts of creationists are far from being rational.

Dusty

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09-02-2013 02:03 PM  5 years agoPost 479
shawmcky

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Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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09-02-2013 02:20 PM  5 years agoPost 480
Thomas L Erb

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I'm sorry dusty but it is you who is closed minded. I am mearly asking questions and get called a closed minded person.

As far as the monkeys keeping pets I didn't watch the vid but if these are captive animals they were influenced by human intervention, t
If they are wild there is plenty of evidence of cross care of infant animals in nature and this is just another example.

Yes monkeys have some human "traits" but that doesn't mean they are our first cousins.

As far as an animal acting "deceptivelly " as I pointed out this happens all over nature as well but being deceptive to no end but survival and "lieing" to a fellow human is a very different Scenaro all together. This is what you blind your self to. We as humans will lie for many reasons that have nothing to do with survival at all. We will lie to gain anything we "desire" but don't need to survive. Monkeys may use deception to gain food but only until they are fed not to gain Every piece of food that they can get so ta
Hat the others have none. That is called greed which is a very "human" trait. Monkeys don't steal just because the other monkeys have one and they don't. They don't protest that they deserve it just because they are entitled to it.

You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.

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