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08-19-2013 02:38 PM  5 years agoPost 1
Hoggy42

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I wanted to start off first by saying by no means am I an expert on the subject of evoultion and not all that long ago I would have agreed with Thomas here that missing fossils cast doubt on the threoy of evolution. Of course that didn't convience me that the story of creation was right either. Since that time I've looked at the study of evoultion and now can understand it I will now attempt to share that here. If we can please just stick to evolution I don't want to get into another Athiest Vs Theist thread. If you think that something in evolution doesn't work please let us know why but please back it up with some fact or facts not just because it says so in your holy book.
Ok uj and hoggy If darwinism was true the would be overwhelming fossil evidence of transitional animals of every species that is on this planet. There is none of this. They claim to have evidence of mans evolving from start to finish yet if this be true why nothing else. The evolving of man is only from ape like creatures and not back to the fish that they theorise we all cam from.
The first part of this that needs to be addressed is the fossil's first and formost there are many transitional fossils that have been found and many more that have not yet been studied and identified. The next part is that you need to understand how unlikley it is that a fossil is formed in the first place so here are a couple of links one detailed and one more for kids of course there is much more information out there if you chose to look.
http://www.fossils-facts-and-finds....ils_formed.html http://www.oum.ox.ac.uk/thezone/fossils/intro/form.htm

Just on that topic you may ask why there seems to be a good range of dinosar fossils around and they are much older then the missing more modern fossils that can't be found. The answser to that is very simple it's believed that the dinosars died along with much of the life on earth from a single event. Which the evidence of which remains and can be seen today it's a really big crater.

So without these fossils where do we find the evidence to support Darwins observations. It's in the DNA of all living things from human beings to plants. It's a fact that DNA code is universal among all living things, with all creatures sharing identical segments of code. The evidence for evolution comes from considering the similarities between so many living creatures. Plants and animals to bacteria, viruses and fungi, rely on the same DNA coding mechanism to carry the biological instructions guiding how the creature is put together. Thanks to the Human Genome Project and similar projects that have uncovered the gene sequences of other animals, such as the chimpanzee, scientists can now compare the code among different species. They can be textually compared. When every letter of two gene sequences is compared, scientists find whole 'sentences' and 'paragraphs' of identical DNA 'text.' There is already enough such DNA comparison evidence to prove beyond doubt that all living things have shared ancestry.

Here is a link to Kenneth Miller who is by the way a Roman Cathilic talking on evolution.

Watch at YouTube

This is just one small part of the evidence for evolution but I think it's a good start to understanding it. Evolution is a fact and it has been proven I'm sorry if you don't like that.
Yes there is copying and pasting in there and there will be more. Again lets keep this on topic.

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08-19-2013 02:50 PM  5 years agoPost 2
TurboRacer

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There's no debating with the hardcore creationist people.. They think the Earth is 6000 years old and they think that people and dinosaurs roamed the Earth together in harmony.

Just look at that kook creationist museum that opened up.. It's insane.

I don't even argue with these people any more. hahaha

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08-19-2013 03:00 PM  5 years agoPost 3
Phaedrus

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Ask a Creationist if they get a flu shot each year. The answer should be no, since the only reason to do so is because the flu virus evolves which requires new vaccines.

Creationists main point of argument is that since they refuse to believe evolution is real and/or do not understand the science, then it must be wrong.

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08-19-2013 03:05 PM  5 years agoPost 4
Phaedrus

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A follow on. The illustration below shows how evolution really works and why the idea of a "missing link" shows a complete lack of understanding about how evolution works.

This is also a good read:

http://www.science20.com/between_de...k_fallacy-75791

Full size version is here:

http://www.evogeneao.com/

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08-19-2013 09:57 PM  5 years agoPost 5
Hoggy42

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Hey Turbo I know there are many Hardcore creationists who will just flat out stick to what they believe no matter what. Yes I have seen that creation museum it really needs a big disclaimer out front stating that nothing in there is based on fact. I think without that they are open to a law suit for some poor kids bad grades.

Phaedrus the workings of modern medicine was probably going to be one of my next points. Depending on the response.

Just to be clear here I'm not hoping this will change anyone's religion from believe to non believer. More so to except facts many Christians know evolution to be right and have reconciled that with their religion.

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08-19-2013 10:41 PM  5 years agoPost 6
es1co2bar3

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Hoggy42 by your claims your not an expert on the
Subject then why would you want to debate someone
About something you are not prepared to explain.
I see the main intention of PPL like you is to try
And deny G@D existence. As a matter of fact he created all thing included the evolution you squirting from your eyeballs: " I asked you a long time ago why's everything is so geological perfect and
All you do dodged the question.

Take this from me no one can explain the perfectionist of creation; nor can they tell the danger the sun is to us while it the single most
Effective sources of energy for human and the earths.

These question arose all the time for those who want
To disproved G@D just like your self and all you guys do is run can't explain a dogan thing.

It's insanity to think and talk with you guy about thing the human being can't explain why and how they work.

Save your self the embarrassment and stop trying
To talk what you have no control over for PPl like me think you who preach evolution is nothing but straight menthol.

I was waiting on some honey but there aren't no Queen bee,

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08-19-2013 10:52 PM  5 years agoPost 7
helicopter

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Hogster,
I appreciate your interest in the topic of
human's possibly evolving on the earth through
eons of time.

However, for me the issue always has a huge question
at the end.

The majestic manner in which we, human men and women
are constructed; this includes everything down to the
cellular DNA; where some how a digital message system
within the Strands of our very genetic material, operates
giving us life and thus consciousness.

This occurs in all living matter.

For me, it is so much easier to see this all as
a DESIGN.

And as a result, a magnificent DESIGNER.

I believe the theory of evolution is mankind's attempt
to dissuade acquiescence to a DESIGNER/CREATOR.

Though we are created in the IMAGI DEO (the Image of God)
we are not by any means infinite or eternal, and with
limited minds simply cannot fathom such a required
magnificent CREATOR. Then too, we so often suppress
the very creation which surrounds our lives to continue
our personal refutation of accepting that
There is a God behind CREATION.

I hope I didn't offend in this somewhat generic
rendition. But for me it is settled.

Your post has brought me to post a new topic:
What IS Consciousness?

Best of days to you and yours.

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08-19-2013 11:15 PM  5 years agoPost 8
Phaedrus

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The first issue is how long evolution has to work. Creationists short circuit this by claiming a young Earth, which makes evolution hard to explain. To do so they must then ignore verifiable science about radiometric dating and such.

But if you choose to be at least realistic to accept the state of the science as we know it which places the age of the Earth at about 4,600,000,000 years, then the next issue is comprehending how long that is.

This site has a fun calculator that allows you to work out some analogies for yourself. I like the one where the age of the Earth is a single day. All of recorded history happened in the last 2.5 seconds of that day. Homo Sapiens first appeared about 37 seconds ago. Dinosaurs went extinct about 20 minutes ago.

Once you understand how long evolution has to work the ideas expressed in its operation are far easier to understand and eliminate the need for the Grand Designer.

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08-19-2013 11:20 PM  5 years agoPost 9
Hoggy42

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Australia

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Esco you have been added to my ignore list. So goodbye simply put you have nothing interesting or intelligent to add to any conversation.

I may not be an expert on the topic that in no means I can't show you the evidence and help explain it.

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08-19-2013 11:44 PM  5 years agoPost 10
outhouse

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auburn ca

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Evolution does not have to have anything to do with a god or religion. It is just science that explains our real origins.

Even if one wants to invoke a creator, one can folow theistic evolution even if there is no evidence at all for such.

Young earth creationist have no business debating anything as it has been deemed not scientific in a court of law.

Old earth creation generally follows theistic evolution.

Hoggy, you have posted a great vid by one of the best, it is used in many evolution/creation debates by many different forums.

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08-19-2013 11:47 PM  5 years agoPost 11
unclejane

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For me, it is so much easier to see this all as
a DESIGN.
And as a result, a magnificent DESIGNER.
I believe the theory of evolution is mankind's attempt
to dissuade acquiescence to a DESIGNER/CREATOR.
For what it's worth, and hopefully to save time. You're arguing what's known as the fallacy of the "argument from design", a very poor argument that's been shot down many times over.

Read this for the refutation:

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index....ent_from_design

I gave this in the other thread to Tom, but he didn't read it all the way through. Maybe you can get all the way through it. But the answer to your proposal is in here.
There is a God behind CREATION.
Who created god, then?

LS

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08-20-2013 12:05 AM  5 years agoPost 12
Phaedrus

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I am also curious why God bothered creating EVERYTHING else in the Universe. Billions upon trillions of galaxies with trillions upon trillions of stars, and so on. Seems like a lot of work to end up with just one "special" little place called Earth for his "chosen ones".

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08-20-2013 12:35 AM  5 years agoPost 13
outhouse

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You cannot use reason and knowledge and education on people that did not use such, to form said beliefs.

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08-20-2013 01:08 AM  5 years agoPost 14
Gearhead

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we can thank our Creator for programing the first Cell to evolve

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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08-20-2013 01:25 AM  5 years agoPost 15
Phaedrus

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I'm not a total hardliner. If people want to think that God created the Big Bang, then I'm fine with that. I'll go one farther. God created science and we have spent our existence discovering the Wonder of His Creation.

Now, I still want to know why he went to so much trouble creating all that other stuff, besides His Chosen People.

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08-20-2013 02:14 AM  5 years agoPost 16
outhouse

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His Chosen People
Who would that be lol

Jews were the chosen people first.

Not the 2b christians, not the almost 2b muslims

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08-20-2013 02:25 AM  5 years agoPost 17
Gearhead

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Now, I still want to know why he went to so much trouble creating all that other stuff
until I think on it a little longer, for now there is only 2 ways for me to answer that question

1) if you made the universe would you be content with only 1 solar system

2) I know if I made a universe I would make extra stuff

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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08-20-2013 03:32 AM  5 years agoPost 18
tripergreenfeet

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) if you made the universe would you be content with only 1 solar system
Fair call, so as Creator you go and make many solar systems, which include many kinds of planets, both solid and gas, with varying degrees of randomness. In that massive randomness, there are sure to be other planets that would be habital for life, whether it be human, animal, plant or, as a Creator, any kind of other life form you dream up.

Why stop at one planet, with one chosen "people" with flora and fauna for the chosen people's exclusive use? Why not create more life filled planets? Seems silly to be the Creator and stop at just one in such a large body of work. And then to tell the "chosen" people they are the only life in the entire universe of your Creation, seems like a very selfish and mean trick to play on the chosen ones.
I know if I made a universe I would make extra stuff
How much extra stuff? Just a little bit cause you got tired and bored, or being the all knowing, all giving Creator that never stops knowing and giving, would you create a Graham's Number of stuff. Not that there is enough atoms in the known universe to make a Graham's Number of stuff anyway, but if you're the Creator you could fix that with a quick snap of the fingers. Because without your creative abilities, the individuals consciousness that came to the mathematical conclusion of said number was your creation anyway.

Circle work anyone?

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08-20-2013 03:49 AM  5 years agoPost 19
Wave

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I would create a multiverse.

An infinite number of universes.

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08-20-2013 04:17 AM  5 years agoPost 20
helicopter

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LS
In answer to your question, No One created God.

The Greatest One is Eternal, always IS. Always.

Pha
In answer to your conjuring, I say the universe is
also Eternal and Infinite. It has no end and we, in
our limited minds, cannot begin to fathom this or
the Eternal "God".

There are 'other' planets in the Universe. They are so far
away, not even an alien could reach them in millions of
light years.

That being said, is it possible that perhaps This Planet
is where we humans are Brought to Life and it is here where
our free moral agency finds a decision to be made regarding
our future consciousness beyond this planet. I believe we
have been granted an eternal "Soul". We shall go on
and this must be somewhere. Oh yes the consciousness
that we manifest in these bodies of clay MAY extinguish
at our demise, but the eternal soul can never die.

I must say this. I believe The Creator gave us written
knowledge of His Presence in a Special Book given to
a special people specifically chosen for the task of
it's recording and transmission. And This over a 1500
year period stating that a REDEEMER was going to be
offered to any individual person who will but take
His Hand, Believe in His Death (Which was in our place)
and in His Resurrection from the Grave - offering to
any CHILD who will but receive this GIFT - A future
somewhere in His Great BIG Universe.

Now some here will find this UNBELIEVABLE to be sure.

And that is one's personal choice under free moral agency.

But what IF life does go on after our death?

And we find that we have ascended into the presence
of the Eternal Creator. And to be saved from an eternity
separated FROM HIM, all we were asked to do is to locate
The Truth of The Book, make it ours and RECEIVE the
Death of the REDEEMER as our death, and thus HIS
Resurrection as our own.

At this final judgement how could we possibly say
to HIM, "You haven't Done Enough."

In conclusion, if the Bible is True, and we MISS the
opportunity to receive THIS GIFT in THIS LIFE, what
remedy remains after our demise?
And in agreement with Pascal, Voltaire and other
philosophers, likely MUCH smarter that we toy heli cats,
Reason alone cannot conclude in an infinite Creator.

But as Blaise Pascal stated in the Pascalian Wager,
What IF there IS a God and we miss Him?

At age 41 I was an atheist. Two months into my 41st
year, I had a revelational epiphany of the very
Presence and Light of God. He showed my soul the
reality of HIS WORD, the Bible, and The Resurrection
of His Son. I was Granted ETERNAL LIFE.

I cannot help but BELIEVE.

Thank You Father.

I love gravity, it always keeps my feet planted when I fly!

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