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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Freeze a Puffy Batttery and Save it, Wha?
08-19-2013 02:39 AM  7 years ago
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icanfly

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Freeze a Puffy Batttery and Save it, Wha?
Yop, put my puffed battery in the freezer to cool it and recharge after a quick flight at the park. It was slightly puffed when I got back maybe 15 minutes later and was still warm to the touch so in the freezer it went.

Lo and behold after a good 30 minutes in the ice box the puffing had disappeared completely. The next step is to charge them in a freezer where the temp makes it easier to process the reactions going on to retain a charge. Might work. I'm going to freeze all of my puffed batts and see what happens.

I'm trying to revive a dead cell in a tx lipo with the freezing method, let you know if it works.
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08-19-2013 02:42 AM  7 years ago
qraptor

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All I can say is... brave man

May the magic blue smoke never come out, may the road rise up to meet your feet....
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08-19-2013 02:42 AM  7 years ago
Applegate

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NV

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Deleted. Started a new thread instead.
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08-19-2013 01:00 PM  7 years ago
icanfly

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magic blue smoke
is the electrolytes converted to gas which are the storage for a charge.

I have that slightly swollen tx lipo in the freezer overnight and it isn't puffed like it was before it went in.

Heat is a lipo's enemy, keep it cool, better yet frozen, and it'll keep forever, well, a very long time. Shyt man, electricity flows much more easily in a vacume. Heat is friction, friction is combustion, CAPICHE?

And my experiments in a main blade shape have proved positively surprising, = longer flight time, quieter, added stability.

What do I do for a job, (sometimes) I sculpted this for a bro,

what I do, and you, lots of talented people out there, no mystery.
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08-19-2013 02:01 PM  7 years ago
D.Magee

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Heat is a lipo's enemy, keep it cool, better yet frozen, and it'll keep forever
are you saying we should always store in the freezer then?
When removing should you thaw it out before charging or flying?
Teameagles@HaveFun
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08-19-2013 02:03 PM  7 years ago
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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icanfly
Nice helmet or really small dolly. Can't get a perspective on the size of either ?
I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?
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08-19-2013 02:45 PM  7 years ago
RyanW

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Edmond, Oklahoma

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Isn't it funny how we used to cool NiCads to get them to perform, now we heat LiPos to do the same.

Low temps kill the performance of LiPos, from a discharge standpoint. I honestly don't know how they affect the charging.

Be safe and let us know how it turns out.
-Ryan
Mikado USA, Kontronik, Opti-Power, MKS Servos
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08-19-2013 02:51 PM  7 years ago
icanfly

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glad you noticed
Can't get a perspective on the size
see the door in the background? On the dolly it's about 6 feet tall, helmet's about 4 feet on each axis. We aught to throw a prop on the top and fly it one day, ya when something will lift about 60lbs of fiberglass,lol. It's a bird, no a plane, no heli helmet .
are you saying we should always store in the freezer then
I'm wondering about that. I fly in the winter when the temp is minus and not sure if flight times were shorter for any reason other than an old battery. I believe charging them cold is something to look at, and yes storing them cold has been proven to extend a lipos life and would probably assist in preventing thermal breakdown. Lipos only ignite with a converting of electrolytes to gas in the presence of high heat.

I'm no superior trained expert but neither was anyone before they tested the world around them. If experts might chime in with their own proven theories then we'll all be better off for it.

I may charge a set of lipos in a deep freeze to see how quickly they charge compared to room temps without altering the c rate.
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08-19-2013 03:00 PM  7 years ago
RyanW

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What you experienced in the winter is natural, no matter the condition of the battery. If you normally have a timer set for four minutes, you will probably have no power left at three minutes when it is 40 degrees out.

I don't know when the optimum operating temp starts, but I think it is somewhere around 120 degrees and peaks out at 140... don't exceed 140... ever.

If you do fly in the winter, it is always advisable to pre-heat the batteries. Even then the temp will drop during the flight, so adjust flight time and demanding maneuvers accordingly.
-Ryan
Mikado USA, Kontronik, Opti-Power, MKS Servos
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08-19-2013 03:33 PM  7 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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ok

Is the "BLUE GAS" from a puffed battery OXYGEN? Oxygen reflects as blue when a gas bottle is discharged and or purged.

You know, if we look at the table of elements and reason that everything began once as hydrogen, while multiples form other atom structures forming diverse molecular mater, lithium is very high on the order of elements and a catalyst in many ways, a flammable one.

In the mean time there are new types of non flammable batteries being researched and pending patents which are touting 4 times the storage of lipos by weight. And guess what, a main chemical component used in it is as abundant as the dirt beneath your feet.
don't exceed 140... ever.
Good advice. Charging temps? Do they matter?
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08-19-2013 03:48 PM  7 years ago
ZS-JAF

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A buddy and I have been flying a lot in the Houston heat and packs come down hot. We have been sitting them in the AC for about 30 min before charging again. Is the rapid cooling and heating bad for the packs?I have a 3D heli, I don't understand why it doesn't do 3D.
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08-19-2013 03:52 PM  7 years ago
icanfly

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Is the rapid cooling and heating bad for the packs?
Charging them hot will absolutely get a person into trouble and fast. Yes cool em down plenty before recharging. How fast you cool em doesn't affect it as far as I know. I think you want to cool them after use asap.
PS: The most dangerous puffed packs I know of are ones that are overheated, puffed, and then someone tries to go back and immediately recharge them. Yes, I've seen someone that stupid, and the outcome was what you expect...a fire.
yup.

How I discovered the item was when most of my lighter Zippy packs all puffed after use, but the initial puffing subsided when they cooled. I have 2200mah Turnigy packs which don't heat and puff much after similar use as the Zippys. I tossed a spent Zippy in the freezer to enable a recharge and pleasantly discovered zero puffing of the pack after about 30 minutes of cold exposure.
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08-19-2013 03:58 PM  7 years ago
RyanW

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One more thing to consider... voltage decreases on these when cold (let's say below 50 deg F). Voltage will increase when going from low to normal operating temps. Therefore if you do a full charge on a 'cold' pack, it can put itself in an over-voltage situation just by reaching normal operating temps.-Ryan
Mikado USA, Kontronik, Opti-Power, MKS Servos
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08-19-2013 04:02 PM  7 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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Voltage will increase when going from low to normal operating temps. Therefore if you do a full charge on a 'cold' pack, it can put itself in an over-voltage situation just by reaching normal operating temps.
Incredible info that is.
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08-19-2013 04:05 PM  7 years ago
ZS-JAF

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Ball park numbers 120 when after use then 70 before charge. We were waiting longer and not getting them as cold before charge. Glad to see this new method is approved.I have a 3D heli, I don't understand why it doesn't do 3D.
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08-19-2013 07:02 PM  7 years ago
jason46

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MI

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icanfly,

Could you please give us voltage readings of a pack(or packs) at room temperature before being placed in a freezer and the voltage of these packs when immediately removed after some time. I'm curious about the amount of voltage drop.

Thanks
Jason
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08-19-2013 09:31 PM  7 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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I can do that as soon as I find my meter. Was looking for it earlier today, it's gotta be somewhere where I left it last (anyone who owns a shop knows what this means).
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08-20-2013 02:18 AM  7 years ago
icanfly

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so, word is out. After freezing my turny 2200mah 35c each cell read 4.19v. Before I put it in it was room (basement) temp of 72 and registered 4.18v per cell. The lipo was in the freezer for 3 hours and you can safely assume 30f would be an educated guess at the freezer temp

Here's an article with a good explanation of lipo use/care etc,

http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
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08-20-2013 02:27 AM  7 years ago
D.Magee

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kansas city mo.

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It is hard to believe the voltage went up how long did you have it in?Teameagles@HaveFun
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08-20-2013 02:36 AM  7 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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3 hours, and did not drop as suggested.

Upon re-examining my Zippy which displayed a little puffiness to begin with, some of the condition returned when it came back to room temp. The article in "electropedia" link is very informative and helpful in this matter.

Suffice it to say v returned to 4.18 when the batt warmed to room temps.
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