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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Is Nitro Dying
05-25-2015 06:16 PM  3 years agoPost 821
BobOD

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New York- USA

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There's more to it too. A lot of marketing emphasis is put on the pros of the incredibly more profitable form. It's in the best interest of profits to ensure the higher profitability has advantages.
All companies must be concerned with profits but thank goodness for those that are interested in more...those that continue providing Nitro.

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05-25-2015 06:17 PM  3 years agoPost 822
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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Those videos are the lower limits of head speed BUT there is much room between the low and high speeds. Just as nitro I guess the point I am trying to make is to not use more headspeed to do what your style requires. That way you will get more run time. It seems obvious to me that the higher the head speed the higher the energy it requires just to speed the blades through the air never mind adding load. I remember fondly when I used to fly nitro the CSM CarbSmart. My Raptor 50 with an OS Hyper 50 flight times went from 6 to 7 minutes to 11 minutes with the same head speed and better performance. This was years ago and I wonder why there are really no systems like this out now for nitro especially because of the fuel price these days.
Thanks for watching the vids though. I think everyone should at some time experience a low head speed machine. I personally love flying my LHS 700 as it is very relaxing. As far as auto's go remember the disc loading is much less as there is no second 6 cell pack.
I have seen Raja auto his 13 pound gassers at under 1000 head speed but picks up a little head speed before landing. He actually has a bit of + pitch in his heli when doing this!!

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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05-25-2015 07:00 PM  3 years agoPost 823
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Low head speed stuff makes a refreshing change but to do it all the time just gets boring if your only interested in stick banging 3d like me. That's why nitro suits us 3d guys better.

I actually have a good compromise at the moment, I put my trex 800 pro on 10s 8000 @ 1750 and get 6.5 minutes stick banging! But when I land and realise I have to charge those huge packs I wish I had my nitro with me!

60% of the time, it works every time!

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05-25-2015 07:07 PM  3 years agoPost 824
Aaron29

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USA

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That's why nitro suits us 3d guys better.
I think Kyle Dahl, Nick Maxwell, and many would disagree. I love nitro for practice and the smoke and visceral noise, but I'm not going to pretend anymore. The pros compete with electrics. I used to rationalize that it was because electrics were being marketed. But in reality, nitro is being marketed, too, yet only ONE is showing up at the winner's circle. Electric. There's a reason for that. And it isn't that nitro is better for us 3D guys .

All the electric podium placements at XFC, F3N, 3DM, F3C, etc. pretty much prove that in competition, when reliable performance matters, electric shines. No one who is serious takes a nitro to a competition.

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05-25-2015 07:32 PM  3 years agoPost 825
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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I actually have a good compromise at the moment, I put my trex 800 pro on 10s 8000 @ 1750 and get 6.5 minutes stick banging! But when I land and realise I have to charge those huge packs I wish I had my nitro with me!
That's a great comprimise,,thats what I have been trying to say. Use the headspeed you need and no more and you will get longer flight times. My other electric is a Align 550 Pro Dfc. It came with a 850 kv motor with a huge 16t pinion. Geared to be a Cuisinart on Puree! I put 600mm blades and speeded up the tail ratio put an 11t pinion and run it at 1850 or so, tick tocks and agressive horsing around and I get 8:50. No bogging with that kv and gear ratio and she comes down cool. I am going to try a 10t soon and see what happens.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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05-25-2015 07:39 PM  3 years agoPost 826
BobOD

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I love when they switch to the second heli in competitions these days. It's kina pathetic if you think about it.

BTW, I would buy that 180 the day it's available. That would be the only thing in the RC industry that I wouldn't wait to see how others make out with it first.
160 would be more appropriate for me actually. That would be about all the power a 700 could actually draw and 700 is about the biggest I'd be interested in.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Is Nitro Dying
05-25-2015 07:46 PM  3 years ago •• Post 827 ••
Aaron29

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USA

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I love when they switch to the second heli in competitions these days. It's kina pathetic if you think about it.
Pretty biased. As if this never happened with a nitro in competition and as if it even matters.

What matters is nitro is dead in competition. That is terrible news for the future of nitro, the main point of this thread. Without the competition wins and attention, nitro will continue to decrease. If Michael Jordan ain't drinking Pepsi, the kids aren't either. And they certainly won't pay 2-3x cost for it.

It's hemorrhaging badly. I'd like to see it survive for nostalgia sake, but an ostrich head in sand approach isn't going to save it.

Remember when there were diesel RC planes? I don't either. But there were. Everywhere. They are a TINY niche of the hobby, now. The same will happen to nitro, unless we can get these dang prices down.

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05-25-2015 07:51 PM  3 years agoPost 828
Aaron29

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160 would be more appropriate for me actually. That would be about all the power a 700
So, you'd spend 5 or 6 bucks for a four minute flight that matches E performance? Wow. Nurse! Nurse! We need a straightjacket over here!

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05-25-2015 07:59 PM  3 years agoPost 829
BobOD

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No...because it would far exceed the performance of the electric. The only time electric wins is sub 3 minutes...or energy conservation. Both bore me terribly.
Again, I understand the draw for some...just that that stuff bores the tears out of me.
$12 for 8 minutes of fun is no discouragement for me. Bargains are for sustenance not luxury.

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05-25-2015 09:01 PM  3 years agoPost 830
Aaron29

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USA

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OK, you value nitro very closely and are willing to concede much rather than switch to electric. I understand. But this thread is about is nitro dying. I think it is. Yes some value nitro highly. But they are so few in number that I don't think it will make a difference. It's a cold reality that nitro is declining even years after the first inquiries into the battle. Every time we revisit the N vs. E thing there are fewer people jumping into N's corner. I'm in the quagmire myself of liking nitro, but willing to see it go because of the expense. There are few who value nitro the way you do. Most are switching over with only the diehards remaining nitro. This doesn't bode well for nitro going into 2020 and beyond.

Can anything be done?

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05-25-2015 09:03 PM  3 years agoPost 831
rexxigpilot

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Florida

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If Michael Jordan ain't drinking Pepsi, the kids aren't either.
The kids don't even know who Michael Jordan is. You have heard of LeBron James, right?

And I do remember RC diesel engines. Problem was you had to use ether mixed in the fuel to get sufficient atomization to get the engine started (dangerous, explosive mix BTW). Straight diesel fuel didn't work. Even though you didn't have glow plugs, you had specialized fuel and needed to set the compression by turning the head screw in after starting. So now you had to properly set both carb needle(s) and head screw. This was more than most RC enthusiasts wanted to contend with for so little performance. Diesel was not a perfect engine for RC.

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05-25-2015 09:07 PM  3 years agoPost 832
Aaron29

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Oh come on, I like nitro, flybars, 90's rock, and the word supermodel still brings Brinkley to mind, you expect me to keep up with basketball?

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05-25-2015 09:15 PM  3 years agoPost 833
BobOD

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Concede much? I fly electric too. It's cheap and easy and I enjoy it for what it's worth.
Nitro is my luxury and I know few who don't have and enjoy them. In a decline? Yes. But I know more people with Nitro helis today than at any point in my 20 years flying them. Electrics have brought quite a few in to Nitro as they graduate as successful hobbyists

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05-25-2015 09:17 PM  3 years agoPost 834
rexxigpilot

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Florida

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Just kidding with you Aaron29.

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05-25-2015 09:21 PM  3 years agoPost 835
Aaron29

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OK fine. If LeBron James isn't drinking Pepsi.

Oh, nevermind. I give up.

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05-25-2015 09:22 PM  3 years agoPost 836
Aaron29

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USA

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Bob, I'm the same but to a lesser degree. I fly my electric primarily and get one or two on a nitro.

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05-25-2015 09:27 PM  3 years agoPost 837
don s

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Chesapeake, VA

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Electrics have no soul. They are sterile in comparison to nitro.

Is nitro dying? Or has nitro simply declined, due to other options being available?

E820, Raptor G4N, X50F/E, E620, Forza 450, and some planks.

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05-25-2015 09:31 PM  3 years agoPost 838
rexxigpilot

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Florida

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It would actually be easy to produce a liquid fueled RC heli that had more power than electric. Many have experimented with turbo charging RC nitro motors. These engines have around double the power of a normally aspirated RC engine. Go one step further and replace the nitromethane/ethanol fuel with hydrazine. There is reason hydrazine is used as rocket fuel.

There are problems with both these ideas. Turbocharging adds cost and weight to the engine. Hydrazine is not something our "we need to protect you from yourself" guberment overseers want us to have. It makes a very powerful explosive (scary to the Department of Homeless Sycophants) and is highly unstable - kind of like nitroglycerine ("children should play with such dangerous things", say the guberment nannies).

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05-25-2015 09:33 PM  3 years agoPost 839
Aaron29

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USA

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine

It's not like the government is overreacting on the hydrazine thing.
Hydrazine is highly toxic, and dangerously unstable in the anhydrous form. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency:

Symptoms of acute (short-term) exposure to high levels of hydrazine may include irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat, dizziness, headache, nausea, pulmonary edema, seizures, coma in humans. Acute exposure can also damage the liver, kidneys, and central nervous system. The liquid is corrosive and may produce dermatitis from skin contact in humans and animals. Effects to the lungs, liver, spleen, and thyroid have been reported in animals chronically exposed to hydrazine via inhalation. Increased incidences of lung, nasal cavity, and liver tumors have been observed in rodents exposed to hydrazine.[40]

Limit tests for hydrazine in pharmaceuticals suggest that it should be in the low ppm range.[41] Hydrazine may also cause steatosis.[42] At least one human is known to have died after 6 months of sublethal exposure to hydrazine hydrate.[43]

On February 21, 2008, the United States government destroyed the disabled spy satellite USA 193 with a sea-launched missile, reportedly due to the potential danger of a hydrazine release if it re-entered the Earth's atmosphere intact.[44]"
I think I'll stay with WildCat. It even smells good. LOL.

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05-25-2015 09:42 PM  3 years agoPost 840
kthane

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Pensacola

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Is this the longest thread ever? My guess is nitro is no dying anytime soon.

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