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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Is Nitro Dying
08-29-2013 06:14 PM  5 years agoPost 301
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Frank, you type too fast Nice explanation

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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08-29-2013 06:28 PM  5 years agoPost 302
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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I've lost count of the different nitros I've flown over the years but the drive train problems every one of them had are:

- weak, cheezy start shaft. Usually no flat spot, causing the hex coupler to spin/strip the end of the shaft.
- hex coupler made of soft, crappy metal. Strips too easily and helps ruin your wand too.
- end play in the assembly. I've complained recently about the Whippy, but all nitros suffer from bad design here. Shimming and washers are needed under the hex cup and play always eventually returns as the bearings slowly wear out anyway. This isn't as much of a problem with standard pinion/clutch setups, but it's bad on the Whip, where the OWB is part of the assembly and alignment MUST be perfect at all times. Otherwise, it bangs up the bearings in this area in pretty short order on all of them. this could be easily fixed with some kind of spring washer setup or thrust bearing arrangement or both. But I've never seen a nitro where this has actually been addressed.
- pinion bearings too small. The housings and bearings themselves are just too tiny and rip apart too fast. The Whiplash is the only one I've seen so far where this part is beefy enough to handle a .91 + sized engine.

That's basically what I've seen on every nitro I've owned. The Whiplash design is the closest to a really good one I've seen so far, except for the endplay issue.

LS

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08-29-2013 06:37 PM  5 years agoPost 303
Frank Bostwick

rrElite Veteran

Cincinnati Ohio

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I have never had a few tof the issues listed but thats me.
Again and many of our daily coversations all come down to this
Its all about preception and expectations.
The problems I have seen flying nitro are, in my preception, just details needed to be sastified to fly, and therefor are now my expectations.
Like taking off a scorpion motor every 6-10 flights to oil the bearings. Not a "weak spot" in my perception, just a task needing completed. To others, thats an undbelieviable hassle......
I expect to leave work in an hour and go fly a few tanks!
Im sure Ill preceive that as a tonofun.
GO fly!

RIP ROMAN

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08-29-2013 06:39 PM  5 years agoPost 304
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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I doubt that as the drive train for the electric Avant was much to be desired, especially for a $1000 kit
The Mostro is not the Aurora

Funny that the Goblin fans that say the Mostro is a Goblin clone are the same ones saying the Mostro drive train is going to be junk.

Ignore the quote for the second comment...It was quoted for use with my first comment.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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08-29-2013 06:41 PM  5 years agoPost 305
XxjaredxX

rrNovice

Az

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People that move to electric from nitro just don't undertand how to tune an engine and keep it running i enjoy everything about nitro. The sound lets someone know they shouldn't get to close. Even if it is dying i'll be glad to say. THE FEW THE PROUD!!

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08-30-2013 02:55 AM  5 years agoPost 306
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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The Mostro is not the Aurora
Time will tell. We will see in 2 years when it actually ships They will have to seriously upgrade the QC to make up for the Aurora.

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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08-30-2013 03:12 AM  5 years agoPost 307
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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The Aurora is an awesome heli...It may have had growing pains years ago but that was then and this is now.
The Goblin wasn't exactly perfect at first either.

Different topic anyway

I literally never use the word literally right.

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08-30-2013 03:15 AM  5 years agoPost 308
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Growing pains, you obviously were not at IRCHA....pitiful showing.
Back on topic, who of you nitro freaks are go an build a bulletproof drivetrain????

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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08-30-2013 03:16 AM  5 years agoPost 309
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Nice edit BTW

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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08-30-2013 03:29 AM  5 years agoPost 310
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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I added a sentence...never took anything out or changed anything

I literally never use the word literally right.

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08-30-2013 03:36 AM  5 years agoPost 311
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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It's funny. I've seen a guy standing right next to another. One flys a Trex 700N that's over 5 years old and a 600N a couple years older than that. And, he's always flying. Never aggravated never frustrated and beats on them. Crashes them every now and then and often has it back in the air that day. The guy next to him seems to have many of the problems noted above.
And, I consider both competent people. But, some people simply are more acclimated to a higher level of mechanical complexity.
And even the guy having the problem often sticks with Nitro. I think that's because a lot of people just think they are more cool.

Team POP Secret

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08-30-2013 03:38 AM  5 years agoPost 312
unclejane

rrElite Veteran

santa fe, NM, USA

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Well I just hit the about 5 gallon mark on my Whippy N and so far no problems. the circlip-under-hex-cup mod is holding and I suspect will wear fairly slowly until its time to replace the bearings anyway.

But from these pics, you can see why I call it the Terminator. It truly does have a tank-like drive train. So I submit the Whip design as the first one that seems to be sufficiently strongly built.

The sprag is behaving with no troubles, I suspect because I'm keeping after the play in the bell/starting assembly...

I still haven't put the canopy on it. I should probably do that before I crash and end its life...

LS

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08-30-2013 01:20 PM  5 years agoPost 313
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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the problems I have seen flying nitro are, in my preception, just details needed to be sastified to fly, and therefor are now my expectations.
Like taking off a scorpion motor every 6-10 flights to oil the bearings. Not a "weak spot" in my perception, just a task needing completed. To others, thats an undbelieviable hassle......
Maybe, but some equipment is better than others when it comes to maintenance. Other motors than the Scorpion don't require any bearing oiling at all, such as the Align or the Kontronik. And in fact probably most of them. Scorpions are good motors - I have one in my Whippy E - but there are others just as good that don't require that kind of maintenance.

So I call that a "weak spot" on the Scorpion rather than just a maintenance item. Don't get me wrong, I love my Scorpion, but this is a slightly unusual thing that has to be done to it.

OTOH, if there's something that needs done on all helis, like occasional replacement of bearings here and there, that's more of a routine maintenance item to me.

As for nitros, it seems to be an unfortunate fact of life that the high speed parts in the drive train tend to be high maintenance items. I expect to have to pull my clutch bell assy on my Whip every few gallons or so to tighten up the end play I talked about earlier, and to have to replace bearings and eventually clutch/liners if the heli lives that long.

But I still think these drive trains can be improved. The Whip is as close as I've seen to a really good one compared to all the others I've owned in the past. But even it could be improved.

LS

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08-31-2013 04:43 PM  5 years agoPost 314
Flys4Fun

rrApprentice

new mexico

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i used to have a 700n that i put somewhere about 10 cases of fuel through it without ever having a problem or even needing to touch the drivetrain. i sold it to another an he flew it for many cases of fuel before stuffing it and even then the drivetrain survived, lol.

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08-31-2013 05:07 PM  5 years agoPost 315
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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One thing we can't forget is that performance, weight and reliability are all related. Yet another thing will be different for each individual. Formula racers are a good example. The engines are rebuilt every race. It's electric counterpart doesn't but they won't even race them in the same class.
It's not so hard to make something bulletproof but balancing this with weight is important. Some of the electrics have taken this to quite an extreme...boy oh boy. To the point where the latest revelation is that weight is a good thing.

Team POP Secret

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08-31-2013 07:02 PM  5 years agoPost 316
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Like taking off a scorpion motor every 6-10 flights to oil the bearings. Not a "weak spot" in my perception, just a task needing completed
I have never had to "take off" a Scorpion motor to oil the bearings. With the Scorpion Motor Bearing Oiling Kit, you just use the long applicator to put oil on the top and bottom bearings with the motor mounted in the frame.

As for Scorpion motors needing to be oiled, and other motors not needing oil, that is simply not true. No bearing subjected to 20,000rpm will keep the grease inside for very long. It's not like Scorpion is using a different "inferior" bearing. In fact, some of the other motor manufacturers use the same bearings as Scorpion. The difference is that Scorpion recommends reapplying oil to the bearings every 6-10 flights, while the other motor manufacturers say nothing. Do you really think a high quality Japanese bearing, when transplanted from a Kontronik motor to a Scorpion motor, somehow magically changes in its ability to retain lubrication at 20,000rpm?

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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08-31-2013 07:42 PM  5 years agoPost 317
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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Like taking off a scorpion motor every 6-10 flights to oil the bearings. Not a "weak spot" in my perception, just a task needing completed
Same here.
My original HK4035 have several hundred runs on the original bearings that been oiled uhhh, 3, maybe 4 times and everything still smooth as silk. The shaft is supported on both sides and I had the pinion dial indicated below .001in

I guess is all on how you setup things, right?

My nitros needed fresh rear bearings every year or season, until now that I switch to the glide bearing. Never stop enjoying them in spite of the maintenance.

Nitro is not dying by any means, but is definately NOT for the weak ones who are not willing to play in the smokey, oily, noisy world of glow engines. I LOVE THEM!

Is like the folks who like Harleys, makes no sense to me, but try to take away that heavy, vibrating, aweful handling motorcycle from them and they'lll shoot you. LOL

Santiago

Team Minicopter - PeakAircraft.com
bavarianDEMON- Team Kontronik - Scorpion Motors-

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08-31-2013 07:49 PM  5 years agoPost 318
rj98

rrNovice

auckland nz

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is nitro dying
I agree nitro is not dying
I have just finished my new velocity 50n1 nitro
Started on my nx4 nitro
And just placed pre order for mosto 700 nitro
This from someone who was only interested in electrics when I started flying 2 years ago
The rest of my fleet comprises elyq 90 nitro
T rex 450 flybarless and trex 250
So I guess you can now call me a nitro freak

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09-01-2013 04:36 PM  5 years agoPost 319
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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No bearing subjected to 20,000rpm will keep the grease inside for very long.
Bearings are able to run at this rpm for a very long life. Vacuum cleaner motors run at 20000+, never get relubricated and I've seen them still going 30+ years.
I think the lube recommendation was a response to bearings that were failing rather than an anticipated need.

Team POP Secret

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09-01-2013 04:45 PM  5 years agoPost 320
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Ask yourself these 2 questions, what happens to grease the more you heat it up? Which runs hotter, a scorpion motor or a kontronik pyro?

60% of the time, it works every time!

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Is Nitro Dying
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