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HomeAircraftHelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › New Sprag in the Whippy nitro kits?
09-02-2013 05:25 PM  4 years agoPost 21
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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I dunno, I'm still thinking it's possibly an alignment issue caused by end play in the assembly that you get with the shaft/hex cup as-is out of the box. OWBs are notorious for disengaging like that if they have even the smallest misalignment of the parts during operation. Eg. like someone here on RR described it as pulling a cork out of a bottle by rocking it back and forth.

I have all the slop out of mine and it's perfect, even when hitting off the governor in a descent. It always engages when the load on the system comes back...

But this may be something we can tell MA if we can connect that as a cause for this... or a repair we can make on our own to fix this so it doesn't torture us .

LS

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09-02-2013 05:32 PM  4 years agoPost 22
helipulse

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Toronto, ON, CANADA

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No washer under hex cup-assembly is nice and tight.

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09-02-2013 05:33 PM  4 years agoPost 23
helipulse

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Toronto, ON, CANADA

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Alignment is perfect. This is 3rd sprag bearing and issue is not fixed.

My another Whiplash Nitro with YS120 flies awesome and has no sprag issue.

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09-02-2013 05:38 PM  4 years agoPost 24
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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so you can't pull/push on the hex cup with even the slightest "click" or movement, it's utterly solid? And the assembled bell has no/zero rocking or play in the bearings, and rotates perfectly smooth right?

LS

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09-02-2013 06:05 PM  4 years agoPost 25
helipulse

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Toronto, ON, CANADA

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Yes, no play and it spins smooth

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09-03-2013 01:14 AM  4 years agoPost 26
hyflyr

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Baton Rouge, LA

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Start shaft play
The play in the start shaft has no interaction with the sprag clutch. It is a completely isolated system that for the most part just rides along with the rpm of the clutch and clutch bell. The one-way bearing in the clutch allows the start shaft to slow down and stop while removing the starter but once the starter is removed the shaft will spin at the same rpm as the clutch. The slight vertical play is just not the issue here. The sprag and clutch bell are supported by their own bearings independently of the start shaft system.

Mine is doing the same thing and even my second sprag died in short order. My opinion is that the sprag needs to go back to the main shaft. The conversion would be fairly easy for MA. Just extend the fan hub to raise the clutch and make a standard clutch bell with a fixed pinion. Then put the tried and true sprag hub on the main gear. There are other problems with the sprag on the engine assembly besides this slipping problem. Maintenance is a pita and the oil from the sprag has the potential to contaminate the clutch liner.

Scott

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09-03-2013 04:38 AM  4 years agoPost 27
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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I don't agree that the endplay isn't a problem. This isn't a typical pinion setup anymore - it now has a precision OWB in the assembly so proper alignment is crucial. The pinion absolutely needs to be fully seated in its bearings at both ends, otherwise it has the potential for rocking, however slightly, which could potentially cause problems with the sprag clutch. The bearings can't do their job if the pinion is slopping around, even if it's just a little bit.

It may or may not be what's causing the disengagement problems you guys are seeing, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's making it worse.

OTOH, I do agree that having the sprag on the pinion is probably overkill on a nitro. Nitros have only a fraction of the torque of an electric, so a sprag on the mainshaft can easily handle even a big block nitro engine.

So I agree that there'd be no drawback to putting the sprag back onto the mainshaft on the nitro. But I doubt that'd be cost effective for them to do - they'd have to retool for a redesigned maingear and a new clutch/pinion and so on.

IMO, a factory fix for the endplay is the first thing they should try. It would be trivial to do - move the grub screw hole in the hex cup up a mm or so, lengthen the cup or lengthen the flat spot on the shaft. Or just put a precision fit washer in the kit. Any of these would be virtually cost free and the dividend would be being able to assemble the clutch/shaft assy perfectly with no play.

Then go from there if the sprags still act up, I guess.

LS

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09-03-2013 06:12 AM  4 years agoPost 28
hyflyr

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Baton Rouge, LA

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Start shaft play
The alignment for the OWB in the clutch is not adjustable. The vertical play on the shaft just allows the cup on the end of the start shaft to move vertically in that OWB. The shaft is forced to be perfectly aligned by the bearings in the clutch bell.

I totally agree "The pinion absolutely needs to be fully seated in its bearings at both ends, otherwise it has the potential for rocking, however slightly, which could potentially cause problems with the sprag clutch. The bearings can't do their job if the pinion is slopping around, even if it's just a little bit."

The pinion is held by completely separate bearings. These bearings have nothing to do with the start shaft or the OWB in the clutch. If you look at the top bearing block the bottom bearing supports the pinion and the top bearing supports the start shaft. Then in the bottom of the clutch bell there is a separate bearing for the bottom of the pinion. This bearings allows the start shaft to pass as well. So the problem has to do with the play in these bearings or the excessive exposure to vibration.

As for retooling that is not a big deal. They are machining this stuff and anyone that knows how to do that work could do it in short order. The main gear already fits the old Tempest hub. I fitted it and that is the same just different bolt pattern I have plans for a DIY setup using it. If MA doesn't fix this I will do it myself.

Scott

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09-03-2013 01:40 PM  4 years agoPost 29
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Well the other thing the pinion can do with endplay present is move up and down in the OWB, which is another formula for making it disengage. The bell can move up and down until the clutch is engaged, but if it engages in such a way that the pinion has some room to move up and down, that can cause the OWB to disengage. But again that may or may not be what's happening in yall's cases, but it is a possiblity.

OTOH, moving the OWB back to the mainshaft makes that not a big deal again. Then you only eventually have beat up bearings at the ends that ride on the start shaft...

Glad to hear that the other hub fits. That could be a cool project... So maybe it wouldn't be a big deal to convert after all..

LS

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09-04-2013 11:13 PM  4 years agoPost 30
helipulse

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Toronto, ON, CANADA

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Spoke with Whiplash guys and they have watched the video and they will get back to me with a solution.

Top cst service.

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09-04-2013 11:31 PM  4 years agoPost 31
unclejane

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Cool, let us know what they come up with. I'm not having trouble with mine, but I'd like to know why lol.

LS

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09-13-2013 08:30 PM  4 years agoPost 32
Malc1

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EVESHAM,UK

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Just getting my clutch assembly back together and have noticed the vertical play in the starter shaft.
Shall I get a washer under the hex cup to get rid of it or just leave it?
Same for the Spragg bearing in the cup.
There is vertical movement possible and there was a shim previously fitted in here.
Put the shim back in or have it as per the instruction manual?

My mind says get rid or all the play but shall I

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

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09-15-2013 02:12 PM  4 years agoPost 33
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Absolutely get rid of the play. Otherwise, you can easily see how any up/down movement in there will just beat everything up in there. As well as possibly cause the sprag to fail periodically.

As I mentioned earlier, I solved this with a pair of circlips from the hardware store. I can't remember exactly the size, but they open up a bit to a precision, firm (but not press) fit and can be pushed down (gently!) onto the inner race of the bearing at the top. Then the hex cup can be gently pushed down and secured against the circlips.

I wouldn't run it at all with endplay and the fix is really easy..

LS

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09-15-2013 04:50 PM  4 years agoPost 34
Malc1

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EVESHAM,UK

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Play has now been got rid of by lengthening the flat on the starter shaft.
Absolutely none now whatsoever.

Regarding the new spragg I've just fitted - this really does not run smooth at the moment.
Hope this gets better as the rubbing sound is a bit like the old one before it fell to pieces.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

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09-27-2013 08:39 PM  4 years agoPost 35
helipulse

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Toronto, ON, CANADA

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Problem fixed.

MA sent me a new sprag. I put the sprag in dishwasher to make it bone dry. added a couple of drops of ATF and now it flies great.

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10-14-2013 06:08 AM  4 years agoPost 36
CF1

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Olympia, WA

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Your video looks just like mine here but mine is doing it much worse. I haven't been able to fly in quite a while so I have made no progress on it yet.
https://rc.runryder.com/t741146p1/

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10-29-2013 03:21 AM  4 years agoPost 37
helipulse

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Toronto, ON, CANADA

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Saw ur video and it is definitely the sprag. Do the same what i did.

Dishwasher and then aft-just 2 to 3 drops. 4 drops is too much

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10-29-2013 03:40 AM  4 years agoPost 38
CF1

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Olympia, WA

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I finally made it out. Problem solved. First swapped bell with sprag. Same. Then pinion. Better. Then finally clutch and problem gone.

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11-10-2013 07:09 AM  4 years agoPost 39
nitro fun

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Oc ca

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I don't have a whiplash, I have other ma's
But after looking at the whiplash manual, The sprag will see a high speed pulse from the motor and at 50% revolution of torq.
With a sprag on the main shaft It don't have a pulse from the motor at 50% revolution.

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