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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › Is Climate Change Our No. 1 Crisis, Mr. President?
07-08-2013 10:03 PM  5 years agoPost 21
koppter

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Virginia

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there's no question that the earth and it's climate are changing - but those changes are not measured over decades but millennia. nor is there a question that there has been a steady and dramatic rise in the amount of co2 in the atmosphere. co2 is a greenhouse gas and traps atmospheric heat - but this increase has paralleled man's industrial growth. it isn't much of a stretch to look at man's activities as the principle cause of elevated co2 levels. to dismiss global warming as a political issue or to blame it on natural processes ignores an exhaustive volume of research.

btw - continents are not "drifting". they have predictable paths.

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07-08-2013 10:35 PM  5 years agoPost 22
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Just like the Pyramids : they have predictiable path's.
If you sit still long enough - like on a manhole cover, sooner or later
you will see one go by.

greyeagle

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07-08-2013 10:42 PM  5 years agoPost 23
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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it isn't much of a stretch to look at man's activities as the principle cause of elevated co2 levels. to dismiss global warming as a political issue or to blame it on natural processes ignores an exhaustive volume of research.
One single volcano can release C02 at levels man cannot possible duplicate.

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch...7/07_02_15.html

That so called "Exhaustive" volume of research is bullsh#t put out there by tree huggin scientists and politicians (AlGore) with one interest in mind.

To profit from Global weather change. Whether it be cooling or warming or just climate change. Makes no difference to them at all.

Follow the money.

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07-08-2013 11:15 PM  5 years agoPost 24
koppter

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Virginia

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from the article cited by the intellectual dennis who obviously didn't even bother to read it:

"Gas studies at volcanoes worldwide have helped volcanologists tally up a global volcanic CO2 budget in the same way that nations around the globe have cooperated to determine how much CO2 is released by human activity through the burning of fossil fuels. Our studies show that globally, volcanoes on land and under the sea release a total of about 200 million tonnes of CO2 annually.

This seems like a huge amount of CO2, but a visit to the U.S. Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) website (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/) helps anyone armed with a handheld calculator and a high school chemistry text put the volcanic CO2 tally into perspective. Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value."

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07-08-2013 11:16 PM  5 years agoPost 25
Phaedrus

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S. Orange County, California

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Does everyone forget that New York used to be under a mile of ice? Man didnt cause that ice to melt away.
Yes, global climate has changed over time. But the point is that it is now changing faster than it ever has and it is changing due to the action of mankind. Think of it like a bathtub that fills and empties over time. Now imagine that man comes along and blows a hole in the side of the tub. Suddenly the ability to keep up with filling is overwhelmed and the tub goes empty faster and more completely than ever before.

King crabs are another real-life example. We like to eat them We fished them like crazy and THEN we discovered that their population has a natural life cycle where they go nearly extinct from time to time. During this we were fishing like mad making the near extinction happen faster and more severely than ever before.

If new fishing practices and quotas had not been implemented we would not be eating much King Crab at all right now.

The whole point of the discussion is to understand how we are affecting the climate and how we can mitigate our impact. Throwing our hands up and shrugging our shoulders because climate changes with time naturally completely misses the point.

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07-08-2013 11:22 PM  5 years agoPost 26
Phaedrus

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One single volcano can release C02 at levels man cannot possible duplicate.
http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch...7/07_02_15.html
That so called "Exhaustive" volume of research is bullsh#t put out there by tree huggin scientists and politicians (AlGore) with one interest in mind.
To profit from Global weather change. Whether it be cooling or warming or just climate change. Makes no difference to them at all.
Follow the money.
Did you actually read anything on that linked page??

Here's a snippet:
This seems like a huge amount of CO2, but a visit to the U.S. Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) website (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/) helps anyone armed with a handheld calculator and a high school chemistry text put the volcanic CO2 tally into perspective. Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value.
I see Koppter read the link as well!! SOrry for the duplication, but perhaps it will help to finally sink in with the naysayers.

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07-09-2013 12:21 AM  5 years agoPost 27
Yug

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Humans wear blindfolds while the universe lives on.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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07-10-2013 05:14 AM  5 years agoPost 28
Cra-Z-1

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Washington,UT-USA

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DO you really think CHINA is going to give a **** about any of this, and stop their Economic boom over it??? NO-WAY!

And if you think otherwise, then you must be drunk off of the Democractic Kool-Aide...

Ban the Ban.

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07-10-2013 06:10 AM  5 years agoPost 29
Phaedrus

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S. Orange County, California

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You clearly missed this earlier post of mine:
It is true that China burns more coal than we do, roughly 4 times as much. But then again their population is roughly 4.25 times ours. So proportionally they burn about the same per capita as we do.

Then there is this:
http://www.scidev.net/global/pollut...clean-coal.html
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/01...nas-coal-binge/
http://engineering.stanford.edu/eve...empt-clean-coal
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jackper...rgy-investment/
They are certainly not going to stop their growth, but at the same time they are paying a whole more attention to mitigating the effects and exploring alternatives than we are.

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07-10-2013 08:13 AM  5 years agoPost 30
Cra-Z-1

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They are certainly not going to stop their growth, but at the same time they are paying a whole more attention to mitigating the effects and exploring alternatives than we are.
Yes I did miss those links, and NO what you say is not entirely true on renewable energy investments (according to one of the articles you linked).

***China was responsible for almost one-fifth of total global investment, spending $52 billion on renewable energy last year. The United States was close behind with investments of $51 billion, as developers sought to benefit from government incentive programs before they expired. Germany, Italy and India rounded out the list of the top five countries.***

I seriously DOUBT that coal will ever become the "Clean" burning energy producing fuel of the future, and have it be more cost effective than a Nuke station. The problem is the "COST" of it all on a nation that is already Taxed to death! AT what price? Who decides WHO is going to have, and who is going to do without?

Will you be the first in line to to flip your AC off because you can't afford to cool your home or because your "environmentally" conscious? OR will you be the person that says NO, everybody else has to do without? Think about the impact this is going to have on all of us.. As usual, the rich will be sitting on their thrones cooling their houses down to 60 degrees, and the rest of us who work for these people will be pinching pennys and hitching a bus to work just to afford their power bill. But this is how we should all be living, right???

Can't build windmills...oh no, they will kill an Effing bird somewhere. Lets drain all of our man made reservoirs, and do away with clean hydroelectric power, because we want to restore the "natural" lay of the land...so lets build millions of solar panels across the whole country??? Uh.....yeah....thats gonna work... NOT! Oh, and we can't build Nuclear plants either....waaaay to dangerous, right?? I have an idea! Lets let each state be responsible for their OWN power generation! Then you guys in Cali can all beat yourselves to death trying to figure out WHERE your going to put all those solar panels, because nothing else will suffice.

Ban the Ban.

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07-10-2013 08:29 AM  5 years agoPost 31
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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I seriously DOUBT that coal will ever become the "Clean" burning energy producing fuel of the future, and have it be more cost effective than a Nuke station
Yup. Its estimated that it will cost the coal industry $1 trillio9n to have clean burning coal. Thats before all the regs the feds will place on it. Coal could very well be dead and our electricity rates will skyrocket. Thats what the Obummer wants. Thats what he promised.
The problem is the "COST" of it all on a nation that is already Taxed to death! AT what price? Who decides WHO is going to have, and who is going to do without?
The "Elite" in Washington DC will decide and we will pay, and pay, and pay, and pay.

It will be done inefficiently and it will not be done in our best interests. It will only be done in their interests. Period.

Think about it. The financial collapse was an event that was not illegal, many profited off it in a very big way, and not one single person went to jail or was punished in any way. We have the single largest legally corrupt governmental system in the world today. And it will not get any better until the entire system collapses. The USA governmental system we have today is intentionally built for massive failure and its getting worse, and that massive failure is getting closer. The problem is not that we don't tax enough. The problem is that we spend to much, and its completely 100% out of control.

In spite of what we hear out of Washington DC on a daily basis, even the good things, spending continues at a pace that is 100% unsustainable. Its built into the system and will not stop.

Make no mistake about that.

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07-10-2013 01:12 PM  5 years agoPost 32
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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yep, and all by design.

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07-10-2013 03:12 PM  5 years agoPost 33
drdot

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So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw..t

Why did Warren Buffet get out of the wind farm business.....Why did data on warming include lots of data from stations in/near sources of heat...Why will the higher levels of CO2 not be countered in part by increased plant growth....Why was the hottest temp on record set 100 years ago.....Why are the treehuggers doing all they can to stop installation of solar projects in CA desert.....Why was Michael Mann an a$$hat....Why does it seem that warming has plateaued for last 16 years.....etc....?

Why, mommy?...why?

BC

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07-10-2013 03:25 PM  5 years agoPost 34
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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STOP asking questions, get back in line!!!!

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07-10-2013 03:33 PM  5 years agoPost 35
drdot

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So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw...

To steal a line from Abbott and Costello...."EXACTLY!"....

BC

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07-10-2013 05:56 PM  5 years agoPost 36
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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07-10-2013 09:43 PM  5 years agoPost 37
Cra-Z-1

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Washington,UT-USA

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^^^

No doubt about it, we are headed for some interesting times. I'm really not a gloom and doomer but I truly feel with all that is happening, that we are in for a BIG surprise...

Scandals, Drones spying on us, banning of personal defense weapons, our personal information hijacked and analyzed and stored on servers without our consent, Carbon cap & trade, Fuel costs, the banning of fracking (Natural gas power generation), Obamacare, and Illegal immigration....all under our noses and all ppl seem to care about are gay rights ...Just saying.

I have said it before and I'll say it again. We are rapidly becoming a nation of have's and have-nots, and dependent on our government. The advent of socialized medicine is our turning point.

Ban the Ban.

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07-10-2013 09:48 PM  5 years agoPost 38
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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and all ppl seem to care about are gay rights
Don't forget about American Idol and Dancing with the Stars. And the latest: "Candy Crush". Yep, we're a nation full of geniuses...

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07-10-2013 09:51 PM  5 years agoPost 39
GREYEAGLE

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Flat Land's

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Jimmy Carter Doctrine of 1980

Did they teach it in the School's ?? When we sold our soul's ??

The Peanut Farmer Doctrine - To Stabilize the Middle East Conflict's

Why the ARAB's never enter into ANY Military Conflict ?

What occurred that changed the Global Economy forever ?

Hint we have not built a Refinery since 1976

We are #11 on Oil Reserve in the Ground

We consume over 25% of the totally and #1 to the plate.

Last year - Consumption flipped globally : More consumed than produced.

WHo is roaring ? coming on in terms of public consumption.

So take away our Coal

greyeagle

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07-10-2013 10:41 PM  5 years agoPost 40
helimatt

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Lafayette, IN

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Couple comments:
1. The many and varied climate models have failed to predict global temperatures accurately even for the current ~50 year time frame. The average temperature change, as far as we accurately assess, has not seen any sizeable increase such as had been predicted and in fact seems to be reversing. Severe storm events are not increasing, etc. In summary, we don't understand the full climate system well at all.

2. We all know the earth goes through cycles. CO2 increase often or nearly always LAGS global temperature increase. It is today as well. The Co2 levls may rise following, for a number of mechanisms at work, and MAY exacerbate the warming (unproven, except in very simplistic lab experiments). See this article for one http://www.skepticalscience.com/Why...emperature.html

The issue is FAR from being settled science; but Co2 does not seem to initiate upward trends in global temperatures. No way anyone can factually refute that.

3. Looking at the graphic in the article linked, CO2 levels spike at or near 300 ppm periodically. The temperature and Co2 level increases are also typically steep, as well as the declines, long before substantial industrial activity even began. Point of fact, things grow much better with higher levels of Co2 than in the atmosphere now- greenhouse growers pump more in. It's also far below levels where it might be a direct, immediate health issue humans.

Who decided 400ppm was some sort of toppling point?

4. Even if the US completely STOPPED creating C02 emissions of any kind, the world's Co2 output from human activity would continue to increase, and contrary to what is written above, developing countries have no interest in changing their trends. I don't really blame them.

The day the EPA pronounced CO2 a pollutant was the commencement of monumental power and control grab; EVERY human activity involves this substance.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › Is Climate Change Our No. 1 Crisis, Mr. President?
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