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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › So, finally, would you advise a beginner to start FB or FBL?
06-16-2013 03:28 AM  5 years agoPost 21
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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It's more critical with FBL. There are things that would hardly affect a flybarred heli but would make a FBL heli go completely out of control.
Particularly with people who go it on their own, I see people having way more trouble than they used to.

Here's one I've seen more than a few people go through.
They put too much cyclic in and cause a tip over. Pretty easy for a beginner to do on FBL, not so likely with a FB.
On the next attempt, they know not to do this again but they missed a bent shaft on the rebuild. The vibes cause the heli to be uncontrollable...wham again. With a FB, it would be like, hey, this thing is shaking and the tail is drifting a bit, better land and check it better.
Then they move the gyro somewhere else and forget to reprogram the orientation. Another wham. It would be almost impossible not to notice incorrect control on a FB heli yet this seems to be a fairly common mistake with FBL.

Team POP Secret

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06-16-2013 03:37 AM  5 years agoPost 22
Zaneman007

rrElite Veteran

Texas - USA

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Like magic????
with a vbar. Immediately, i mean at the first flight!, we saw a massive difference in his flights. He was hovering like a pro...
I have to disagree with this statement. The flybarless system was keeping the heli stable, not him.

IMO- if all your doing is hovering, toss the FBL unit. Your not learning anything.

But, thats just me.

Old Guys Rule!

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06-16-2013 07:45 AM  5 years agoPost 23
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

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BobOD,
+1 ..On top of it and ive seen this quite a few times with new people----> New people like to touch things even when told not too and when the heli crashed,then come back and don't know why .Fix it and the guy does it again ,some a few more times ...
Not saying all new pilots but I for sure seen a few in my neck of the woods..
The first thing I look for in radios is trim lol.
Now if them guys did that with a flybar heli,the worse its going to do is drift a little.Heck I flew a few times with the paddles backwards and lost a paddle once,ever crashed..I know when I first started and know my setup wasn't close to perfect but still flew awesome.Can't say I ever crashed due to a flybar.
You can't screw up or have somethig break on a FBL heli and it better be vibe free..If not,its crashing..

Zaneman007,
Yup and hes not learning control all that fast.Im glad I started with a flybar because it helped progress faster,IMO..Flying in wind and learning control with a flybar helped alot with 3D/moving around and piroing stuff..You have to correct alot doing some moves and being as I already learned it from the jump with the flybar,made other things easyer...

Im 100% flybarless and won't go back but I think new pilots should spend 6-8 or so months with a flybar,then go flybarless..I honestly think they help in many ways and about a year with one would be perfect....

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06-16-2013 09:21 AM  5 years agoPost 24
Flys4Fun

rrApprentice

new mexico

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If you can't hover a flybar heli in one spot with or without wind, then slapping on a FBL unit won't actually make you any better, it will just make you look better for the peanut gallery if impressing people is your thing. Also, will probably give that person a false sense of advancement to where they push it before they have full control in their muscle memory and wreck. Also sad to know that beginners wont know the different characterstics of different flybar rotorhead setups that create and unique style and feel to them that is fun to get to know. Personally, flybars rule cause you can't fake it, you have to fly it and compensate for actual physics in the rotor head in live time, to me that's just awesome. Life ain't perfect and neither are flybars, that's what makes them great to me. Just my opinion on the matter lol

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06-16-2013 07:07 PM  5 years agoPost 25
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

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Admittedly, start with fb, it'll handle a lot of abuse and your going to crash when you begin. Your fb heli can handle a lot of vibration unlike a fbl machine. This will save you in the long run instead of the fbl unit reacting to vibes and tossing it over and wrecking stuff for you.

Fb will require you to discover the controls to effectively hover without learning bad habits like moving a stick to the direction you want to go toward and holding it there which will send the heli into the ground. FB is a bit slower to react than fbl so that's a good thing, but it will have the same final output as fbl overall.

fb is cheaper at the end of the day, plus you'll learn how to rebuild your heli many times over if you are going to crash a lot. Afterward you can convert your heli to fbl with a gyro, head, and learn how to program it as if you knew fb in and out.

I know a guy who flies fb better than fbl, more than one dude really.

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06-16-2013 07:33 PM  5 years agoPost 26
VANHELI

rrVeteran

Omaha,Nebraska

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FBL is the present and future of our hobby. Stay up with the times. IMO it is not any easier or harder to fly then a FB Heli.

Dave V.

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06-16-2013 07:38 PM  5 years agoPost 27
GetToDaChopper

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Las Vegas , NV

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Look i don't care about the reasoning some people have for choosing one system over another for a beginner because they are both great for learning how to fly a R/C heli in their own way but i'll tell you what isn't great for learning and is the single most detrimental obstacle for a beginner is CRASHING ! and any system whether it be FB or FBL that helps keep crashing to a minimum is good for the beginner and personaly i believe that a FBL system with todays eazy to use software is a better system for beginner to start with because it's eazier to setup right and i don't care what anyone else says FBL is more stable and is eazier for a beginner to control the heli when first learning, IMHO......

You can swim across the freezing cold lake if you want but i'd rather just have the key if you know what i mean......

Watch at Vimeo

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06-17-2013 02:39 AM  5 years agoPost 28
ICUR1-2

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Ottawa, Ontario

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For a beginner it doesn't matter what they start with, They will have a learning curve to overcome no matter what.

There are more advantages to learning on FBL than are disadvantages.
Most units today are vibe resistant and have easy to follow guides to help you.

5 crashes on a FB heli will pay for the FBL unit most times depending on kit size.

top myths for FBL:
vibes will flip your heli. (not anymore, however you should fix it)
it is too complicated.
cost to much.

Actual benefits:
crashes cost less
easy set-up after a crash
longer flight times
auto level and bail out features depending on brand

seeing how everyone needs to learn to fly before they can adjust set-up or do proper set-up.
finding a mentor would be priority.

spending time, paying attention

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06-17-2013 04:10 AM  5 years agoPost 29
icanfly

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ontario

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Personally, I'm passionate about this topic. Would you teach a driver in a Porche or a Volkswagon, a compact car or a pickup truck?

Would you teach a diver to dive in the ocean or in a pool? A hang glider off a cliff or a mellow hill? An airplane pilot in a jet or a tow glider? Would you teach, anyway, the comparisons go on and on.

In my personal experience I would not have known how to properly understand a fbl gyro or any gyro had it not been that I learned what everything on a fb heli did or did not do for better or worse. Yes I was glad to ditch the wire and linkages, but I would never have appreciated the fully hands on reflex actions it taught me had I started with fbl.

A beginner should not learn to fly in wind right away, it just adds to the initial confusion of controlling a heli with the wind blowing it all over the place. Saw it before my very eyes and they quit. Some advise learning on a fixed pitch heli before a collective pitch, I skipped that and went to fb cp, ya gotta jump in some time.

Hey, have it your way, learn to race on an F1, (a Goblin fbl 700), forget ALL the winning drivers who started on GO-Carts (Airhogs and coax's), what do they know? Nothing, eh, what does anybody really know? nut'n.

And did I say fbl will trash more servos and linkages than fb?

hum, sawry, I didn't have a simulator to learn on just a cp 450 after a summer of an esky coax, then I got a simulator and a fbl conversion, but that's just me. Every body is different.

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06-17-2013 07:14 AM  5 years agoPost 30
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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Would you teach a driver in a Porche or a Volkswagon, a compact car or a pickup truck?
Would you teach a diver to dive in the ocean or in a pool? A hang glider off a cliff or a mellow hill? An airplane pilot in a jet or a tow glider? Would you teach, anyway, the comparisons go on and on.
FBL is not more complicated than flybars if anything its easier
a fbl500 or flybarred 500 is still a 500 not a Porsche compared to a VW.

if you're unable to do simple computer data entry(fill in the boxes) then Fly bars might be for you.

though personaly fbl is way easier even for a noob to set-up just follow the instructions. but if you can't do that either then maybe flybar is for you.

spending time, paying attention

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06-17-2013 10:01 AM  5 years agoPost 31
icanfly

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ontario

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assuming the person is starting out on a mcpx or something equally small, jump in with fbl but try fb just the same, it's nice to feel the difference.

I guess old farts would have liked it if they had fbl to begin on before it existed in it's present form, when fb was the only game in town, that's not too long ago.

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06-17-2013 11:08 AM  5 years agoPost 32
MichiganFlyer

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Lansing,MI

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1. It's a balloon. Every bit of the environment affects it. Try to control it and the environment changes and you need to adapt. You are in control!

2. It's a balloon. Every bit of the environment affects it. Complicated algorithms eliminate the outside environmental affect.

1. There are a lot of parts, measurements, stuff. I am scared if I crash this I won't be able to fix it.

2. WOW, a lot less to repair. I am new AND I expect to CRASH!!!

1. 15 tries with a trainer gear(after 40 hrs of sim) your hovering.(lot's of repairs before it)

2. (40hrs sim) 10 flights your hovering. Congrats!

1. Learned wind affect, ground affect, how to stabilize.

2. How to hover.

I learned on a FB and think You should fly a heli.

Friends don't encourage friends to fly helis! It can cause part shortages.

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06-17-2013 01:12 PM  5 years agoPost 33
GetToDaChopper

rrElite Veteran

Las Vegas , NV

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You should fly a heli
I learned on a FBL, if you don't with either you crash that heli.

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06-17-2013 01:53 PM  5 years agoPost 34
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Been Following This Post
I saw this when it was first posted, but held off to see what others had to say... just curious..
My first response would have been that the FB was the only way to go..so that the new person would have the experience of flying this type machine.. and I see others that feel that way also... BUT, after some more thought and reading some of the other posts, I would have to say that I would suggest the FBL units... First reason is that FB models are becoming the "dinosaur" and they are disappearing...
Then I considered the cost... but if you were to pay a regular price for a tail gyro and servo (now you can buy these a LOT cheaper since everyone(seems like is converting to FBL) you would have the price of the stabi system covered..
I also considered the unit getting damaged in a crash, and that raising the repair cost...but, again if you mess it up that bad you would have probably lost your tail gyro, and we are back where we started!!!
I could go on with + and -'s, but in the end, I would say that the FBL is what I would recommend now, along with the person that mentioned a MENTOR...
As far as them not learning to fly with a FB, no big deal since they are going away... learning to drive a stick shift vs an automatic.. maybe nice to know, but not really a requirement...
Also, these new machines are fully capable of being "detuned" so that they are quite easy to learn on, and as the student progresses it can be dialed back up, without having to convert or buy a new machine.. and also as noted earlier, the bail and self righting on some units should be a real confidence builder for the new flier!!!!
I am an old timer, but, I must admit, I am all for using the technology that is available to us... never thought I would have or need a laptop in my toolbox!!!
JMHO, Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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06-17-2013 03:11 PM  5 years agoPost 35
GetToDaChopper

rrElite Veteran

Las Vegas , NV

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First reason is that FB models are becoming the "dinosaur" and they are disappearing...
And there are very good reasons for that.
My first response would have been that the FB was the only way to go..so that the new person would have the experience of flying this type machine
Why if you go to fbl anyway in the end ? it's just a waste of time and money just so you "can see what it's like" ???

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06-17-2013 07:07 PM  5 years agoPost 36
highrpm

rrApprentice

Shelby Twp,Mi

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A hemmmm!!!! perhaps this may be a perfect spot to mention there is a reALLY NICE FB T-rex 500 in the classifieds. plenty of crash parts too. it's what I learned on and still flies great but now I want a bigger electric

https://rc.runryder.com/t738588p1/

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06-17-2013 09:31 PM  5 years agoPost 37
Red B.

rrNovice

Jonkoping, Sweden

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There is no definite answer to this question.

Spotify or vinyl record?
Automatic or stick shift car?
Quartz or mechanical (automatic) watch?
CCD or Kodak TMax?
...

In Europe where I live approximately 8/10 of all drivers learn to drive with a stick shift car. Just because it is "old school" doesn't necessarily mean it is bad. There might even be some advantages with "old school" technology.

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06-17-2013 11:11 PM  5 years agoPost 38
rockrand

rrApprentice

west bloomfield mich

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Attacked by mentally challenged teenager while flying
This could only happen to me.i was flying at my local school a few hour ago
When a mentally handy capped teen took an interest in my models and I was asked by his escort if I could fly again for him.I felt bad for the kid and of corse agreed .about a minute into the flight I felt someone jumping on my back and grabing my arms and hands and he was strong and I could
Not shake him loose with out hurting the young man and his escort could not
Control him either
CRASH straight into the baseball diamond.
Thank god I was only flying a Efd wing Neptune and not a expensive Heli but still bad enough

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06-17-2013 11:18 PM  5 years agoPost 39
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

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rockrand, why didn't you run a new topic?

Back to the fb verses fbl debate, the question should have been asked "Would you go to fb after flying fbl?" answer, NO!!!

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06-18-2013 02:45 AM  5 years agoPost 40
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Not Too Sure??
GetToDaChopper, it sounds as if you might have taken my post out of context?? Or there is an "echo" in here...
We are both saying the same thing...

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › So, finally, would you advise a beginner to start FB or FBL?
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