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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › So, finally, would you advise a beginner to start FB or FBL?
06-14-2013 11:59 AM  5 years agoPost 1
yannick

rrVeteran

South Korea

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I opened a topic a while ago about this as we have in the club several beginers.
Being myself a big fan of Vbar, I was unsure what to advise them to do. I thought FBL would create problems due to the fact that learning with the training gear would perturbate too much the fbl system. I thought FB was better so I advised them to start FB.
We are speaking about a Trex450, a furion 450 a Trex500 and a Trex 550. All helis were correctly setup and were flying very nicely.
They all started FB.
After few month of fighting with the training gear like everyone, the guy flying the furion got a miniprotos with a vbar. Immediately, i mean at the first flight!, we saw a massive difference in his flights. He was hovering like a pro... Much better than with his furion...
Then the guy with the Trex 550 did the same. He converted to the DFC with Vbar. Same thing happened...
To the point that they nearly told me off not to have told them to start FBL (lol...).
Now they all bought FBL controlers ...

We also do now training flights using my fusion 50 and ballistic 700 with Vbar and they are making massive progress...

I even ordered a Epic MD8 for 800 class training... With Vbar of course...

Conclusion, FBL helps beginners a lot.... (Unlike what i thought at first, this is not me speaking but them...).

The only downturn is regarding the DFC helis, in order not to have the heli shaking, we need to have high revs.. This is not so good for the guy with the Trex450, when the guy with the protos can go to ridiculously low rpm for a 450 and have an amazing reactivity and stability!

Have good flights (FB or FBL, this is not the point here...)

Yannick

Is it me or this time the ground was higher than last time??

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06-14-2013 01:01 PM  5 years agoPost 2
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

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Is this a club in South Korea?

www.JustinJee.com

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06-14-2013 01:57 PM  5 years agoPost 3
yannick

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South Korea

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Yep!

On geoje island,in the south.
We are not a lot but we are motivated...

Is it me or this time the ground was higher than last time??

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06-14-2013 02:10 PM  5 years agoPost 4
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

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Is there an army base there? Or is this club mostly comprised of Korean members?

www.JustinJee.com

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06-14-2013 02:25 PM  5 years agoPost 5
yannick

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South Korea

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It is a korean club.
There is no army activity there. It is a big ship and offshore units building area. This is why we are there.

Is it me or this time the ground was higher than last time??

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06-14-2013 02:50 PM  5 years agoPost 6
MichiganFlyer

rrElite Veteran

Lansing,MI

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One day soon the question will be: Have you ever flown a flybar heli?

That is how much FBL is out there.

Friends don't encourage friends to fly helis! It can cause part shortages.

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06-14-2013 02:54 PM  5 years agoPost 7
DEDO

rrApprentice

FREDERICA, DE.

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Several years ago when I learned to fly,it was with a FBL trex-600N.

I didn't have any problems using training gear on the FBL bird and learned to fly 100% by my self.

The simplicity of the setting up a FBL heli made this a success. IMO

Peace Out BOBBY D.
"GOBLIN PRo GASSER"
ZeN G290,HC3SX,MKS,
Maidened 8/24/12 FL

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06-14-2013 03:08 PM  5 years agoPost 8
BobOD

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New York- USA

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I've seen coax mode help new pilots a ton. IMO, this outweighs a lot of the pitfalls some new pilots run into with FBL systems.

Team POP Secret

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06-14-2013 06:03 PM  5 years agoPost 9
ticedoff8

rrKey Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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I my opinion, it is easier to learn on a FBL system.
And, I would recommend a 500 to 600 size - the 450 is a little small.

But, the key is that the FBL training 'copter is fully setup & tested by a skilled FBL pilot / builder before it is used by the student. And, the setup emphasis should be on stability and smoothness. Not "stick banging" and "3D" - not at the start.

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06-14-2013 06:55 PM  5 years agoPost 10
Crashr30

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DFW

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With flybar they will learn better/finer control but it may really slow progress. And the machine is essentially worthless with a flybar on it nowadays. If they were wanting to compete is FAI type flying then they need to start with a flybar since FBL is not yet allowed in FAI.

FBL will be easier to learn basic flying quicker because of the stability and the machine has some value should they want to sell/trade.

In the end I would say FBL is the best way to go.

Team Synergy RC, Team Bobby Jacks, PowerMaster Fuels, Team Scorpion, YS Engines

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06-14-2013 08:34 PM  5 years agoPost 11
S.Dykes

rrApprentice

Wesley Chapel, FL - USA

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I would steer a new guy towards FBL for several reasons;

1 It is the current technology.

2 It is easier to setup mechanics.

3 I dont want to setup a flybar machine for the new guy but dont mind setting up fbl machine for him.

4 I dont see any reason to learn old tech before using the current tech. Doesnt make sense to me...

I think steering them towards flybar would slow their progress.

That would be sorta like telling someone learn how to drive a car with a manual transmission before they drive an automatic.

Learning to drive a vehicle with a manual transmission is a good thing but it doesnt make you a better driver nor is it necessary.

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06-14-2013 09:45 PM  5 years agoPost 12
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

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If I had to start all over again,I would for sure go with a flybared 600..

You can make setup mistakes with a flybar and won't tip over and flip out like flybarless will..You also get that connected feeling right away with a flybar where it takes new people thats never touched a flybar heli a long time to adjust things so it flys the way they like,seen that happen many times already..
Once someone learns on a flybared heli for 6 or so months,then switch to FBL..That way you know how the heli should feel and what ya want from it..
Flybarless also won't make you progress faster.All it does is help in wind and frees up a little power,thats it..If flybarless helps progress faster (which it doesn't) ,I would of for sure noticed it going from FB to FBL a year ago..

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06-14-2013 11:54 PM  5 years agoPost 13
BobOD

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New York- USA

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I have to agree 150% with Bladestrikes here. I don't believe a FBL system helps a pilot just starting out. It may help them get past their deficiencies faster...not necessarily a good thing. Kinda like giving a calculator to a kid and asking him if it helps him to learn how to add.
The only thing that sways me a bit are features like coax mode which I've seen help people get past the initial nervousness. But, once they are comfortable in a hover, I recommend they shut that off and now learn to handle the heli.

Team POP Secret

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06-15-2013 12:19 AM  5 years agoPost 14
yannick

rrVeteran

South Korea

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This was a bit what i thought untill i saw it myself.
The beauty of FBL (except for this damn DFC) is how low you can go in RPM and still have a very controlable machine.
For the beginner it is brilliant as there is less noise, it is much less intimidating. The flight time is very long, there is less damages in a crash. Resetting the heli after repair is a piece of cake... Only good points in fact.
The tilting issue (my biggest fear) is a non issue in fact. The guys very quickly get the trick, and none had any problem with that.
At the end of the day, the guys want to enjoy their machine and were pretty quickly annoyed by the FB, especially on small machines where these small pieces created reliability issue, complex repair and full resetting after the slightest damages.

Is it me or this time the ground was higher than last time??

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06-15-2013 12:29 AM  5 years agoPost 15
cdrking

rrElite Veteran

Seattle

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I say it makes absolutely no difference. What you learn first is what you get used to. I learned on a 30 size nitro with no simulator and styrofoam blades. I learned to auto with it too.

We have a new guy at our field who has learned from day one with a FBL heli and he's doing awesome. He now has a Trex 550 and is advancing very well.

I say if you're a computer techy kind of person then go for the FBL. If you absolutely hate computers and electronics then go for a fly barred heli. I think the majority of us like the electronics and setup side of things, but there are some who don't like it at all.

Either way you go there is a learning curve.

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.

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06-15-2013 12:42 AM  5 years agoPost 16
GetToDaChopper

rrElite Veteran

Las Vegas , NV

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would you advise a beginner to start FB or FBL?
Really it all depends on where that person wants to get to, scale ? simple sport flying ? light 3D ? crazy hard in your face 3D ? so what is his end game ??????

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06-15-2013 02:20 AM  5 years agoPost 17
ICUR1-2

rrElite Veteran

Ottawa, Ontario

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Ask the same question in another year.

The way flybars and paddles are disappearing quickly, and all the new models are fbl. I doubt anyone will be using flybars much longer

on the plus side FBL tip-overs are becoming a thing of the past as new gyro technology ignores vibrations today

Ikon, MSH brain, SK540 are the ones I know of that can handle vibes

spending time, paying attention

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06-15-2013 02:25 AM  5 years agoPost 18
schulzie

rrNovice

Noosa, Australia

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running a hobby shop, we come across this nearly every day and really there is no specific answer as each customer is different.

Usually the first thing i ask is what they expect from there heli, then its usually followed by asking how computer savy they are and whether they plan to join a club in the near future.

this is the reasons why....

- FBL - great for newbies who are joining clubs, and are surrounded by knowledgable people. Otherwise it becomes a nightmare as most software has some forms of technical setup knowlegde requirement. Smaller helis also chew and spit servos easier with flybarless crashes. Newbies get caught out on tilt issues and also software lingo.

- FB - obiviously getting harder to get new kits this way but forces the flyer to get acustom to setting up helis mechanically perfect, usually easier on parts for crashes, teaches reactions to flight tendancies.

All in all, its really up to the end user. FBL flyers usually advance quicker.

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06-15-2013 07:15 PM  5 years agoPost 19
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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FB for sure. Mechanical setup that is easy to verify and there is an entire fleet of inexpensive used helis for a beginner to get started with cheaply.

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06-16-2013 02:14 AM  5 years agoPost 20
rcflyerheli

rrKey Veteran

Granbury, TX USA

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But, the key is that the FBL training 'copter is fully setup & tested by a skilled FBL pilot / builder before it is used by the student.
This doesn't apply to just a FBL heli. Every heli needs to be properly set up before flight.

Due to the unique mixing in a FB heli, and in perticular, with paddle and blade interaction, a first time FB heli can be a bear to set up properly.

There is truth in the fact that unnecessary cyclic input on a FBL heli can lead to a tip over, but that is usually less destructive to the heli in general than is getting a FB heli off the ground and not having it properly set up.

Been there, done that, and still have the emotional scars!!!! However, I learned for about six months on a FB Trex 500 before I switched to an identical FBL 500.

I've been flying planks for about 45 years, and am an engineer by schooling, so physically assembling a heli wasn't an issue for me, but getting the setup correct was outside anything I had previously experienced. I have transitioned to all FBL now, but sometimes wonder what it would be like to switch back over to the FB heads.

Logo 700, Specter 700, Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › So, finally, would you advise a beginner to start FB or FBL?
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