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HomeScaleAircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion › Time for some help Fellas..
06-11-2013 01:10 AM  5 years agoPost 1
Grimracer

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Eau Claire WI

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I have spent all spring setting up a new scale set of mechanics for this summers IRCHA contest.. BUT.. I had a big setback today and need some help.

OK.. Im pig heading and going to do another 50 (YES NITRO) MD369.. I am using a TT Raptor again.

Step one.. build and test fly stock.. I did and had it flying just the way I wanted.. (pod and boom)

Step two.. Put on flybarless head and controller (TT head and TT GT-5) I did and had it flying fantastic.. (Pod and Boom). Man that DO make a great flying machine!

Step three.. Put on double cats 5 blade head and some of those plastic blades.. (pod and boom) The engine spooled up the blades nice and the dam thing leaped into the air about 5'.. I had it and started to ease back on the collective and something let loose (I think) and it crashed..(woof and poof)

So now.. I ask.. what would Stan do.. what would Darrell do.. what would Jim do.. What would the rest of us kucklehead scale guys do?

Well.. truth is I don't know and I might give up on this one. This is my 3rd attempt at a multi head (the other two 325 size machines) and those did not work out either (same issue for the most part..)

I don't have time to build a new machine and it looks like I might be having to go to a Jet Ranger in the future (maybe forever) If I want to get a chance at winning a contest.. Thank god I did not have the body on the thing yet..

Im sure Im done with the 5 blade head.. one fricking 5 second flight for 400 bucks.. I must be nuts..

I will be at IRCHA and WILL work had to get this POS in the air.. BUT that old MD530 might have to be my contest heli again...

Grimracer

Michael J Zaborowski

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06-11-2013 02:23 AM  5 years agoPost 2
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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I'm guessing your pitch curve was way to high for the head speed (minus the weight) on your pod and boom? Personally, I would set the fuse up with a 2 blade head.. Then switch it over to the multi. This way you get a feel for the Auw and get the tail under it. Multi rotor heads can be a challenge...
Don't give up!

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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06-11-2013 02:47 AM  5 years agoPost 3
Grimracer

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Eau Claire WI

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I had the pitch set at 4deg mid stick with 2- at low.. 9 at high..

I have a BSL351 servo on the collective.. gobs of power.

Tracking on the blades was dead on..

I was hoping to take It to the Als fun fly this weekend and get some flight time on it..(I will be at the event sat)

I think I will put the 2 blade head on it and call it good for now.

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

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06-11-2013 03:45 AM  5 years agoPost 4
goodhunting

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Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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what was your head speed?
did you reduce the RPM? More blades means more lift... so less RPM needed to achieve the same lift... as with the two blades and high RPM...

gh

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06-11-2013 04:09 AM  5 years agoPost 5
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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I'll be there Saturday Michael... bring it along!!!

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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06-11-2013 12:53 PM  5 years agoPost 6
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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Just Read..
I would go along with the others about the hs being too high,BUT, even at that it should not "pop" off the ground..
I am wondering if either the blades are too flexible?? More info on them would help... and secondly I would check the fit on your swash follower, which could have been what let go and caused it all to come apart..
Hope Jim can spot the problem for you..

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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06-11-2013 12:55 PM  5 years agoPost 7
Grimracer

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Eau Claire WI

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UPDATE
I was checking things over last night and it might be.. just might be.. that the shaft collar came loose.. This would explain the odd flight profile. It was slid up the shaft about 1/4".. (this also could have been from the hard landing..broke the gear)

I have the governor set for 1,800... it did kind of speed away on me.. again that could be the shaft collar....

spooled..
lurched
I reduced pitch
It poofed..

Jim.. Not sure I will have the head on it for this weekend. I have to build a new anti rotation bracket.

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

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06-11-2013 01:26 PM  5 years agoPost 8
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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After reading this and all of the good input from the other guys, I have a couple Q's:
1) what was the HS, or what was the target HS?
2) was the head phased mechanically or phased in the FBL unit?
3) are these the plastic scale blades?

Those plastic blades are really not intended for use over 1600rpm HS. They produce a lot of lift at a very low HS and are VERY flexy. There's a reason why they are practically giving them away.

If the head was phased mechanically, I could see your having an issue with the follower, as it is easy to get bind with the rods laid over at that angle. If it was phased electronically, then that is not the issue.

Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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06-11-2013 01:57 PM  5 years agoPost 9
Grimracer

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Eau Claire WI

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Barry,

The target head speed is 1800. I can reduce that however. for the test hop I did not turn on the GOV and was easing into the power.. I really did not want to risk over speeding the head on this first flight... they are after all flexy plastic blades.

The head is phased mechanicaly.

They are plastic scale blades.

In all defelction the rods and anti bracket could not touch.

Its becomeing more clear that is is posible the shaft collar slipped. As soon as the swash forced a positive AOA the heli lurched to what should have been the pitch all along.

I put the two blade head back on and am going to fly the heil just to make sure all is well as is.. It looks like the main shaft survived.and no tail boom strike...

Will keep ya posted.

Thanks and if anybody thinks of any other question I will be HAPPY to read... Some times is that one "light bulb" that goes off..

Grimracer

Michael J Zaborowski

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06-11-2013 02:26 PM  5 years agoPost 10
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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On Track
Sounds like you are on the right track..
If the lock collar slipped, would pulling on the ms give you more pitch??
Also could you post links for the head and blades being used?
Glad to hear it is back to the two bladed head to check it out for now, but don't let the set back (they happen in three's) stop you from making the multi work!! It is now considered a challenge, and I have no doubt that you can beat it!!!
Never used plastic blades and from Barry's post, not sure I would trust them.. Century has some multi blade sets that look good (if you choose to change the ones you have)
Keep us posted, and the info coming!!

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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06-11-2013 02:31 PM  5 years agoPost 11
goodhunting

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Slovenia ... somewhere in Europe

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spinblades also have nice sets...
they get them to match (be almost even in weight) from the factory
and IMHO the best thing is that you can get a set of how many you actually need...

gh

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06-11-2013 02:53 PM  5 years agoPost 12
Grimracer

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Eau Claire WI

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Stan.

I dont know for sure.. But the slop between the two ranges would be dramatic.

Right now I dont see any real reasion to blame the blades. I am SURE there are better one out there but dont like to just toss them aside without a good reasion..

Right now nobody has (and I have been looking) any real data regarding the flight and use of those blades. Lots of speculation (and I take that into account too) but no real flight data.

I bought all my parts from the nice folks at RC Aerodine..

head
http://www.scaleflying.com/600-Size...ead_p_2318.html

Blades
http://www.scaleflying.com/Semi-Sym...f-5_p_1299.html

The blades do look a tick different then this.

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

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06-11-2013 04:04 PM  5 years agoPost 13
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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Agree
I agree with you finding the main problem caused by the ms moving, that will let'm do some funny things
Also, I would stick with the blades to get it going again..
I would set the pitch at 4.5 to 5 degrees.
Then start with a low hs and increase until it lifts off at mid stick... then adjust from there.
RCA is bring in some really interesting equipment, and I have not had any problems with my purchases in the past.. and feel they are doing a good job supplying products that help bring new pilots that have wanted to try the "dark side" to get going!!
Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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06-11-2013 07:52 PM  5 years agoPost 14
Grimracer

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Eau Claire WI

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Quick question..

What blade weight are some of your 600 lenght scale blades?

168g or so for the ones in I have.

UPDATE.. 185g (my bad)

Grim

Michael J Zaborowski

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06-12-2013 12:11 AM  5 years agoPost 15
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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180-200 grams

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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06-12-2013 01:12 AM  5 years agoPost 16
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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grimracer:

You know, that sounds like something that happened to my AS350 last year. It was spooling up, then jumped in the air and as I lowered the collective, it pretty much fell out of the air and landed a bit hard. The cause: Reversed one blade. I take one blade off that helicopter to transport it and I put the damned thing on backwards. The upper collar will not cause the heli to jump in the air when you add pitch if it is loose (thrust pulls the shaft upwards from the blades) but as you said, if you land hard, it will sometimes slip and give the impression to you that it was part of the cause of the crash. Hope this helps.

Don

PS: Spinblades are good blades and so are Rotor Tech semi-symmetrical scale 600mm blades.

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06-12-2013 03:51 PM  5 years agoPost 17
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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Good Possibility
Not a bad shot Key!!!

I think we have all done this at one time or another... sure worth a look!!!
I would still look into the main shaft being loose to see, if it were, could it have pulled/pushed pitch into the blades.. doesn't take much to set something strange into motion on these machines, and since I am not familiar with these particular mechanics, it will be up to Grim to see if it could have/did happen.
I had a head on a Hirobo heli that broke the bolt holding it on... could not figure why I was all of a sudden needing to hole the nose down... then I found out why as the head separated from the ms!!! You can bet that was a fun landing!!!!

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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06-12-2013 04:39 PM  5 years agoPost 18
Grimracer

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Eau Claire WI

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Thanks guys for all the help..

I have to be the bigggggest pain on the board right now.

OK.. this is the update.

The machine itself lives. I put the 2 blade head on it, changed the landing gear and double checked everything.. Its OK.. flys well. I have to say.. so far the GT-5 is NUTS stable and easer to adjust then I thought.

I made a new anti rotation bracket (allot less slop the the original) and checked over the blades. They are OK.. I need to look at the head close to make sure I did not bend a spindle. I dont think I did but making an assumption here is not a good idea.

Im going to take the parts and show them to Jim S (Coptercaptn) this weekend to see if he feels I have made bad product choices for my application.

Thanks again

Grimracer

Michael J Zaborowski

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06-12-2013 05:28 PM  5 years agoPost 19
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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Good Idea
I have no doubt that Jim will be able to get you in the right direction... he has been around the block once or twice himself
Looking forward to hearing the outcome....and that you are proudly flying a multi!!
See you at IRCHA...

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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06-17-2013 08:40 PM  5 years agoPost 20
kenb

rrNovice

cloquet, minnesota carlton

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multi head blade grips
hello
Did you assemble this head yourself? If not be sure and check to see if the thrust bearings are right and the spacer is in there. My Century 3 blade head had no spacers in it, almost dumped it over. Hope this helps, ken

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