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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Benzine Trainer - sluggish collective response
06-01-2013 09:40 PM  5 years agoPost 1
martinf

rrNovice

Mold, Wales

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Hi folks,
Apologies if you've read this elsewhere but no response to date.

I've got about 60 flights on the big bird now and am enjoying the mass of this thing and its blade roar. However, it's not very responsive to the collective input. In a breeze it's quite tolerant to side gusts but it can sink suddenly in turns and takes a big pump to lift her back up. The motor is running well and doesn't let the head bog much from 1600 rpm. 1640 rotor diam.

I'm running with the recommended pitch range of Nor -3*, mid +5* and about +10* at the top with a linear PC. I know it's not a 3D animal but what do you folks recommend to goose it up a bit?

I notice that the blade grip levers and mixing arms have alternative positions for the balls, has anyone experimented with the stock head rigging?

Cheers, Marty

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06-04-2013 03:45 PM  5 years agoPost 2
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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How about adding more pitch range?
+10 is OK but if you put in +11 to +12 tops it will make the collective stick more responsive and more pitch will come in faster when you move the stick.

I realize its a heavier bird, about 16lbs or so, so its not going to be as jumpy as other lighter ones. But I would recommend that you put in as much pitch as it can take without bogging the motor with whatever blades you're running on it so see if that helps you.

Oh yeah, and if you do offset it more so that you have more negative on the bottom side it will also make the throttle stick more responsive. In other words, if you made it -11 to +11 degrees with 0 in the middle then the stick will be more reactive as you would be hovering at 2/3rd stick and when you add collective from there the travel distance is smaller (now you go from half to full to get +5 degrees).

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4210 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3300 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1590 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 437 flts

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06-07-2013 06:16 AM  5 years agoPost 3
Star1

rrApprentice

San Jose CA

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More pitch will not do anything. My vario huey weighs 25 pounds and at the high of the collective I have +10 and I never come close to using it. One thing to remember about big helicopters is that they will get into setlelling with power really quick. I have a pod and boom benzin trainer and when I first started flying it I used to get in trouble all the time because of that. Look up setlelling with power and you will see what it's all about.

As long as you anticipate it and get out of it by flying out of it you will be ok. From reading your problem it sounds like you get into setlelling with power because of the wind on windy days. Also remember if your forward speed going up wind is 10 knots, when you do a 180 turn you will have much lower wind to help you stay in the air so you will need more power before you start to sink. If you did not add power and you started to sink that means you are in your dirty rotor wash and you will keep sinking even if you add +16 on the collective. If you go to youtube and see videos from last years Scale Helicopter Masters you will see a turbine 135 that hit the ground when he got into his own dirty down wash. The pilot had maximum pitch and it did not work. The key is to keep it going forward.

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06-07-2013 07:56 AM  5 years agoPost 4
RogerRabbit62

rrVeteran

Thuerigen germany

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On the big birds with a high rotor loading you have the following possibilities to get things more into the way a lighter trainer feels:

Reduce disk loading. Check the maximum you can put on as blade size.
Therefor can measure the distance between tailrotor and mainrotor.

If you have 1780mm on 800 blades on it you might consider asking Vario if the

http://www.vario-helicopter.biz/de/...oducts_id=33210
http://www.vario-helicopter.biz/de/...oducts_id=37358
http://www.vario-helicopter.biz/de/...oducts_id=37361

may be used on that model

By reducing disc load and especially with little heavier blades you have more pitch effect.

But it is a heavy helicopter. It will not fly like a 5 or 4 kg machine.

Because of the mass you have to care more for the dynamic effect of flight.
When you bank it into a curve you have to add pith before it decends. You know it will decend so you have to be "in front of the heli".

When you stop at a landing aproach you have to feed in pitch fairly much because at that weight the loss of dynamic up is very feelable.

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06-07-2013 08:17 PM  5 years agoPost 5
Flys4Fun

rrApprentice

new mexico

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Check the thrust bearings in the head and make sure it's built correctly. Incorrectly installed thrust bearings, worn out thrust bearings or radial bearings put where the thrust bearings should be will cause this as I have experienced your exact symptoms first hand ! Good luck.

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06-08-2013 09:23 PM  5 years agoPost 6
martinf

rrNovice

Mold, Wales

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Hi folks and thanks for you're input.

Mechanically the bird feels very sweet - very little detectable play in anything.

I have got used to the flying characteristics and do anticipate the change in lift in relation to wind direction. As long as it's normal I'm quite happy. Next year, this heli will go electric with four blade head and tail with semi-symmetrical blades. Presumably this would give a lighter disc loading? Well, until it's hauling another 5kg of scale fuse about!

Many thanks again, Marty

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