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HomeAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › BLS 251 work on 6 volts?
06-01-2013 03:35 PM  5 years agoPost 21
Zaneman007

rrElite Veteran

Texas - USA

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Baffled
If they were designed to work on 6 volts they wouldn't make a 4.8volt, only servo as opposed a 6.0 volt or HV(high voltage) servo.

Ignoring the manufactures recommend max voltage is one thing, but saying that the manufacturer is wrong, and recommending that others ignore it. Is simply BAD advice.

So, who is going to buy me a new BLS251??????
Or is my original comment valid!

The only thing that I left out of my original comment was that if it fails, they will tell you or ask "what did YOU do wrong?". The fact that You operated the components outside of their design specifications doesn't seem to matter to them, but it does seem to matter to the manufacturer. Why because the components inside the servo are DESIGNED to work at those specs. They have been QA'd for those specs.

I truly hope that none of you giving this bad advice are engineers or an employees at a company that manufactures anything! If you are, I pray it is hobby king, making $10 dollar servos, and putting 24 gauge wire in a 16 gauge application!!!!

That fact that this needs to be explained to individuals with the "rrProfessor" designation tells me that designation is meaningless.

Totally Baffled

Old Guys Rule!

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06-01-2013 03:41 PM  5 years agoPost 22
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Yes I agree that spec says 4.8 volts, if you call Futaba they are expecting a fully charged 4 cell pack which is 5.6-5.8 volts off the charger. Nominal voltage is 4.8 volts. So 6volts is not far off from where they expect it to be.
Explain this then, why does Futaba rate the BLS451 to 6 volts but the exact same servo in Europe is rated to 7.4???
Also there are so many factors to consider when trying to determine why your servo failed. Saying it fried because of it being on 6volts is only valid if you opened the servo and deconstructed it to find out exactly what happened. Then you would have to be a designer or service man to determine that as well.

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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06-01-2013 03:48 PM  5 years agoPost 23
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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You ever run a slightly higher HS than specified? Run slightly larger tail blades? Stretch a 550 to a 600, 700 to an 800? Run the mesh a little tighter? We do MANY things with these Helis that are outside the specs of the manufacturer.

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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06-01-2013 05:24 PM  5 years agoPost 24
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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Did you ever wonder why some manufactures, such as FUTABA has such a good reputation , and others like Hobby King has such a poor reputation?

It is called Quality Control. Quality manufactures make products that are tested to work at a designed "specification" and NOT fail. When you purchase individual electronic components, they are rated to work at certain specs. The higher the rating, the more the component costs. Why? The short answer is because they are beefier, they designed to handle more voltage and more current. Would you use a 12V 5ohm resistor for a 100V application or would you use a 100V 5ohm resistor? If you can understand that then you can understand the difference between a Futaba high voltage servo and a Hobby King high voltage servo, and why one costs $150 plus and the other costs $10 plus shipping.

Or maybe you can't understand, so let me break it down for you. Lets take a street bridge. One that you drive over with a car. Lets say that it is rated for a max load of 20,000 lbs. Does that mean that it is going to fail at 20,001 lbs or even 20,100? I would certainly hope not. It will probably take more than a few tons over its maximum limit, before it would fail. What you need to understand (please pay attention here)is that the safe operating or MAX limit is NOT THE FAIL POINT. It is some number higher than that. So we can say safely say that the MAX limit is not equal to the Fail point. Because if that were true then a truck that was weighed on a scale that was off by one pound, could be disastrous.

lets take another example closer to the point, the voltage of everything that you plug into the wall in you home in the US is 120 volts 60Hz. Now if you take a closer look you will see that the components that that use the 120 volts will actually operate at a range that is over and under 120 volts. Why because the voltage in you home can swing below 120 and over 120. Yet, the rating on the plug says 120V only, agreed.

Now to the point,a 4.8 voltage servos will not fail at 4.9 or 5.1 volts. It is designed to run "SAFELY" up to the voltage output from a fully charged 4.8 volt NiCad which is 5.8V. The servo has been designed and tested via a quality assurance department to operate within that range or swing voltage. All of the components on the servo are rated for that range. That puts 6.0 volts outside of that range. As I have explained FAIL point verse MAX operating earlier, I'll skip that in hopes that you understood it.

What you need to ask yourself is why does EVERY manufacturer, have a 4.8 voltage rating verses a 6.0 rating? Keep in mind that there are NO batteries rated at 6.0 volts that I know of. I am sure that the manufactures are aware of this. So I think that is safe to say that the manufacturer understands that a 6.0 volt servo will be more likely than not running on a regulated power source that outputs.... Now, here is the tricky part, 6.0 volts exactly, always, forever regardless of load. Or is it a SWING voltage, where 6.0 volts is the minimum output at the maximum current. I know for a fact that a regulated power source will swing in voltage, not much, but it will. So with this piece of information, there could be a chance that you are running 6.2 volts through your servo. So where is the fail point? Would you then recommend a LiFe Battery? its only .4 volts off 6.2 volts when loaded.

With that said, you make recommendations as if you know the EXACT FAIL POINT, and you don't. and again from experience, components with the exact same specs don't fail at the exact same point. This is due to various uncontrollable factors.

I do not purchase servos from Europe, so I have never actually removed each component and to determine its origin and exact specifications. You do realize that without knowing this, there is now way to determine that? so I'm not sure how you came up with your conclusion. Or was it based on "it looks the same'?

I know why my servo failed. It is called thermal run away induced, due to exceeding the specified voltage. I also know that I VOIDED the warranty in doing so. What part of this do you not understand?

Just keep in mind, that when you tell someone that it is OK to exceed the manufactures specs, you are basically tell people to buy HOBBY KING $10 servos. I can guarantee the HOBBY SERVO components are being advertised NEAR or at the extreme limit of there FAIL point.

So what I hear you say is forget the specs, the components, Like the bridge, can take way more than what they are designed for, so just go for it. And if it FAILs, you(the user) probably did something wrong. And my response to your comments is, "if you are taking that attitude why bother with "high end" components, just go straight for the "orange" Hobby King brand. You will save yourself a ton of money, and you are doing the same thing.

Personally, I hate code compliance. But when I run into individuals like you. It confirms why they are NEEDED.

In summary,
If you chose to ignore the manufactures recommendation, that is your choice, but please do so knowingly that you are in effect not safely operating the device.
But recommending that it is "Safe" and OK to other is irresponsible, and just plain bad advice.
The rrProffesor title needs to go. There are way to many on this forum with that title that obviously have no clue, and simply use it to PUSH there bad advice.

I'm way over done, have a good day.

Old Guys Rule!

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06-01-2013 07:37 PM  5 years agoPost 25
RogerRabbit62

rrVeteran

Thuerigen germany

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It is called thermal run away induced, due to exceeding the specified voltage.
rofl...

Many many words, no facts.
So, who is going to buy me a new BLS251??????
Did you open the servo and look up which component is defect? Then we could discuss issues.

If you run it at 4 NiXX spec it is safe for sure.
In Europe the servo BLS251 is rated 5 NiXX also.

I am with you that we do not know if the servos for ROBBE are specially manufactured from Futaba.
I doubt it but it could be possible.

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06-01-2013 08:00 PM  5 years agoPost 26
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Zane
That was a LOT of hostility about a tail servo!!! Wow!!!
I look at it like this, there are MANY people here and elswhere that use that servo on regulated 6.0 volts with no issues. You had a problem, not denying that, but what I am saying is that you don't know what exactly killed your servo, you just don't so you blame it on the 6.0 voltage issue. If that is what works for you, fine. A BLS 251 on 6.0 volts works for me....on 6 different Helis....over 3 plus years.
A lot of manufacturers have conservative recommendation for liability reasons. Do what you like, recommend what you feel is the best scenario, I will do the same and let the actual field experience tell the story.
Please, in the future make sure you don't fly a high HS on a machine not "recommended" for it, don't cross the street on the "don't walk" signal, and please, whatever you do, stay safe. Don't get do riled up, if you need a 251, I will take up a collection and send you one but there is one caveat....it HAS to be run on 6volts

PS, What about your recommendation to run Dynatron 12v starters with dual 4s lipos??? Slightly outside the recommended voltage......by 4.8 volts.....but that is ok right???
I guess nobody should be giving recommendations here huh???

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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06-02-2013 12:37 AM  5 years agoPost 27
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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You don't get it. Then you make personal, attacks. And you didn't get that either. Remember the PM I sent you?

I'd loved to say that you are right, but then we would both be, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Get a clue?

Old Guys Rule!

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06-02-2013 12:58 AM  5 years agoPost 28
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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That is my point, people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks

And it was you who personally attacked me

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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06-02-2013 01:38 AM  5 years agoPost 29
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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You still don't get it.

Old Guys Rule!

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06-02-2013 07:56 AM  5 years agoPost 30
poerQwa

rrVeteran

Rotterdam, The Netherlands

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I'm on the same page as rogerrabbit62.

For Europe Robbe "is" Futaba.
Their servo overview as per 21-3-2013 clearly states that operating the BLS251 on 6.0V is allowed by stating the torque and speeds for that voltage. This also means that the servo is warranted when run on 6.0V
Surely if the servo fails they do not replace your model but based on this info everybody in the EU with the wish to run 6.0V in their model will have NO doubt/fear to do that as Robbe confirms it is OK to do it.

Simple as that.

Regards,

Marc

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06-02-2013 12:58 PM  5 years agoPost 31
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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And there you have it.

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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06-02-2013 01:32 PM  5 years agoPost 32
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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They will fry on 6 volts, mine did.

You guys are so smart and now your omniscience, WOW,

I'd explain electric motors to you guys, but you obviously have zero electronics knowledge!

Old Guys Rule!

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06-02-2013 01:41 PM  5 years agoPost 33
RogerRabbit62

rrVeteran

Thuerigen germany

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so zane then start explaining to me.

what does the nominal voltage of a motor tell you?

i will then look into my old scripts to verify.

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06-02-2013 01:48 PM  5 years agoPost 34
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Well I got a nice insulting pm from Mr. Zane and then he blocked me....I am cool with that.
In my experience and just about everyone else here that has a 251 on 6volts regulated, they just work, work well, and last a long time.
****My disclaimer: I don't fly every brand of Heli with every type of power system so your mileage may vary ******

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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06-02-2013 08:06 PM  5 years agoPost 35
RogerRabbit62

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Thuerigen germany

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I am sure he blocked me before as i do not have a PM.

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06-03-2013 06:44 PM  5 years agoPost 36
Wedge77

rrVeteran

St. Charles Missouri USA

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ok.. Ok.. OK.. Im flying on 6 volts and to hell with it! It flew great yesterday, Ill fly it again tonight, and Ill continue to fly it at 6 volts!

now about the difference bettwen a fast servo for govenor or a slow servo.. hmm.. lets get the ball rolling here.. as I see it, a gov will only work to a certain speed in electric value so any servo faster then that speed will be pointless.. right? LOL

GO!!!

JR NEX E8, 12 cell
Goblin 630, 12 cell
Vibe 50N Fbl
Century E640 Fbl, 12 Cell

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06-03-2013 07:33 PM  5 years agoPost 37
RogerRabbit62

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Thuerigen germany

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Fast servo for governor is better.
there is no real torque needed for throttle.
resolution is important also so do not use too long servohorn

just my 2ct

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06-03-2013 08:08 PM  5 years agoPost 38
MarshallB

rrVeteran

Middle Arkansas

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An ideal servo is something like a Futaba 9252. Pretty fast and solid, works easily on 6 volts and is priced right. Really reliable.


CurtisYoungblood.com
Next-D
Spyder Batteries

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06-03-2013 08:53 PM  5 years agoPost 39
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Depends on the governor. The 701/750 governor is so fast that if you pair it with a high speed servo like a 9254, etc is may actually cause hunting because the engine cannot respond as fast as the governor/servo would like it to (701/750 is four times faster than a GV-1). The result MAY be hunting. Thus as a rule for the Futaba products I suggest something in the intermediate speed range like a 9252.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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06-04-2013 02:09 PM  5 years agoPost 40
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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It's just a hobby. You will probably never meet the people on a blog. Assume that almost all you read is not true. Many of the experts on RR are 12 years old and don't have a helicopter, other than virtual. If you write a sentence and the response is a 300 word essay, you won.

Ben is a real sponsored competition pilot. I am not a real person.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › BLS 251 work on 6 volts?
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