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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterBeginners Corner › Begginer looking for a heli advice
05-13-2013 02:55 AM  6 years ago
Michaelm0268

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Louisiana

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+1 I still fly with the dx-7
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05-16-2013 02:22 AM  6 years ago
Einzelganger

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Campbell, Texas

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Simulator.

Real Flight or Phoenix.

There is not a better way to get initial orientation and stick time... period.

Wayne
I love the smell of nitro in the morning.
RIP Roman
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05-16-2013 06:17 PM  6 years ago
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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I would recommend you to purchase a good sim and grind on that for a while and don't even bother with a beginner heli. Those little helis are great if you wanna just mess around, but I do not recommend using them to train on. They are typically fickle, fidgety, and usually over-simplified which gives new pilots a false sense in they're ablility to effectively fly a normal size heli.

I am a heli trainer and I've successfully trained several pilots without the need for smaller helis or buddy boxes. My philosophy is train on what you want to fly on. That, and a good sim will save you thousands of dollars in crash costs; you can get as much stick time as you need to build confidence without the hassles involved with dealing with an actual model, which allows you to focus solely on learning the basics. And it's been proven that you can learn solely on a sim and fly a properly set up real model first time just as if you'd learned on it as long as you take your sim time seriously.

Drill out the basics until its second nature. Don't take shortcuts during your training. How much effort a pilot put into their training is always evident when you watch them fly. Those who fly with a high level of fluidity in all their flight motions usually spent more time than they needed to to get the basics down to a science. They crash less and they are much more fun to watch fly than a pilot who rushed through the basics just enough to be able to slam some gimbles around and get lucky enough not to crash every time.

Good luck!
Mellisa
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05-16-2013 07:04 PM  6 years ago
NightF0x

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Toronto, Canada

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Hi Mellisa,

I prefectly understand what you mean when you are advising on buying a sim first and not to learn one a small heli.
On the other hand, in order to fall in love with this hobby I do believe trying a real heli is a must !!!
It is important to get the basics from sim but it is also important to have fun and enjoy your hobby !!!
So for now I think I will learn and enjoy as much as possible with my Blade mcp x v2 and DX7s and see how it goes...
In the future I might decide to do get a simulator and improve my skills...

Thanks for the advise,
Daniel
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05-16-2013 09:45 PM  6 years ago
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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Mr F0x,

I see exactly what you mean and of course, everyone's first RC experiences are different. I can respect your decision to fly first and "sim" later. There is nothing like feeling you get the first time you get something knocked out exactly the way you planned it. But at least intermix your training once you decide to go bigger. Little bit of sim then try it out on your real model.

I am a self-taught 3D heli pilot. I was hooked on helis before I ever even touched the sticks after watching a simple inverted hover vid on Youtube. I knew that's what I wanted to do. I learned in the freezing cold of Minot ND, in 2003 on a Kyosho, Nexus 30. I spent many hours, and lots of money replaceing parts even though I never once crashed this heli. I spent about 2 1/2 years in hover training becuase of either weather or mechanical problems that prevented me from ever really gaining complete confidence in the heli or myself.

On the plus side, those 2 1/2 years allowed me to perfect my ablity to control a heli in every upright orientation to the point where is was second nature. On the bad side, I did get frustrated a few times becuase I couldn't fly all the times I wanted to becuase I was waiting on parts or weather (the clutch shoes used to always used to break on this heli and the gyro a servo gave out in flight).

I finally got G3 in 2006 and that's when my skills really took off...about a month on the sim and I was flying FF, IF, RF and basic 3D. I only crashed a heli 3 times since then and I believe that was due to the amount of time I spent on the basics. I Now that I look back, I believe I could have done the same training in half the time if the sim was available.

But, find what works best for you and go with it. I know you'll have fun learning I know I did....even though I did have those days of utter frustration. In the end, you know better than anyone what your abilities are and what you need. Ultimately, opinions are just that...opinions. Simply use them for what they are and make the best choice that works for you

Good luck!
Mellisa
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05-16-2013 10:50 PM  6 years ago
NightF0x

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Toronto, Canada

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Hi Mellisa,

Thank you for sharing your experience in the Heli scene it was really nice to read how your fell into Heli's, It is very similar to my case as I only tried flying once my friends 40$ heli about a week ago and started to watch Youtube video's about better helis

I have just made an order of the simulator as well so I am following your advise and going to train my basic skills on the simulator and implement them on the new heli no to get bored

I really appreciaite your replys and will make sure to update how is my basic training going on once I get the gear...

Regards,
Daniel
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05-16-2013 11:42 PM  6 years ago
DougPenhall

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San Jose, CA - USA

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I think that I would start with a DX7s + MCPX V2 ending up around 400$ ...
As the transmiter is not somthing that breaks fast and would hold for long time I prefer to buy a good one right away than spending more money on it later...
Good choice on the DX7s, but in my opinion the Nano CPx is much better than the MCPx V2. The MCPx V2 tail motor sucks because it's under powered and the batteries are too weak. The Nano takes more abuse too. After the Nano get the 130x or MCPx BL. I don't have a BL but I've heard good things about it. I have the 130x and it's great. I would actually skip the MCPx BL and go straight to the 130x. After the 130x, you should be able to fly anything. I believe this path will actually save you money and give you way more flight time. The main problem with starting big is that you will waste a lot of time waiting for parts. You could buy a ton of spare parts, but in my experience each heli has 2 or 3 weak points. I've been using CA glue to fix everything that breaks, then buying a few spares of everything I've had to glue more than once. As you improve you'll get more and more flight time between crashes, and that's when you can move up to a larger heli. Also, whenever you're waiting on parts, you can fly your smaller helis. You can also fly them indoors at night, when the weather sucks or while you're waiting for batteries to charge.
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05-17-2013 04:15 PM  6 years ago
cominginhot

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Louisiana, USA

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I'll throw my .2 cents in as I am still a beginner in this hobby also. My first heli was a 4 channel fixed pitch that my wife got me from Best Buy. That right there was enough to get me hooked on this hobby. A couple of months later I bought the mcpx and after trying to fly it going from the 4 channel I was like OH EM GEE DUBYA TEE EFF!! My wife then suprised me with a 450 3D and Real Flight 6.5 for Christmas. I must say, after just a couple weeks of sim time flying the mcpx was like a night and day difference. I agree with you on both points, flying the real thing I think is a must have to me but the sim is also a must in this hobby. Although I am by far still a noob in this sport, the sim has taught me so much and makes me a little less nervous when I fly the real bird.
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05-17-2013 04:34 PM  6 years ago
NightF0x

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Toronto, Canada

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Ye I would definitly focus on the Simulator but on the same time make sure not to get bored by flying that mcpx and implement skills I get from the Sim ...
I cant wait to get all my gear here to start training !!!
I envy you Americans who receive their packages within couple days not like us Canadian's who have to wait 2 weeks to get our mail :\
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05-17-2013 04:40 PM  6 years ago
cominginhot

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Louisiana, USA

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Don't let the mcpx scare you, it is wayyyyyy different that what you have been flying. Two things I would recommend you do immediately is get an aluminum swashplate and get the extended tail boom.
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05-17-2013 06:36 PM  6 years ago
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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The main problem with starting big is that you will waste a lot of time waiting for parts. You could buy a ton of spare parts, but in my experience each heli has 2 or 3 weak points.
It's interesting that you say that. I believe starting bigger is actually more benifitial than it is detramental. Yes, larger machines are more expensive, but your machine's mechanical and flight quality is apparent as soon as you life off. They are far more stable and versital. This stability helps you gain confidence and develope faster.

Do you know what is statisically the most diffiicult part for a new heli pilot to learn? Believe it or not, it's rudder dexerity. Being able to control your cyclic on one hand whilst managing your rudder/yaw functions with your collective on the other hand is what crashes most new pilots. And that is especially so for those who've never flown anything or even played a musical instrument before. A twitchy machaine like a MCP does not afford you opportunity to excerise this skill becuase most have fixed pitch tail rotors or none at all. That's what makes them so easy to learn on, but it doesn't do you any favors when you are ready to progress because have to basically relearn to fly when move up unless you learn on a heli that has at least all the basic functions of a full range model. Full swash function, variable throttle, pitch, and collective and full rudder function is a must in my book.

Plus, learning how to work on your machine is just as important as learning to fly it. Learning how to trouble shoot and program a normal heli's systems is something you could never learn on a simple setup like a MCP or a Nano.

I am a firm believer in paying for quality, but not overpaying. I've flown with and trained "budget" pilots and its frustrating for even me to get their machines setup correctly sometimes. And that has an adverse effect on their quality of training. When they switched to my recommendations to go to a full funciton machaine or spend a few extra dollars on proven equipment, they were much happier with their levels of progression and with their machines in general. Think about it; you buy one heli that you know you like instead of 2 or 3 becuase you progressed beyond it within months of having it. The fact that you spent $1600 to $2000 on it is enough for you to take your training seriously and to take your time to get things right the first time. Learn on it, and you'll find it you respect and care for it, it'll save you alot of cash in the long run becuase you won't find the need to replace it too soon becuase you've out-grown it.

Just sayin sounds cheaper that way to me
Mellisa
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05-17-2013 07:01 PM  6 years ago
DougPenhall

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San Jose, CA - USA

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+1 for getting a sim. The sim is very important and helps a lot, but it's not the same as the real thing.

I have Phoenix. I've also been flying a lot in the gusts of wind in front of my house and noticed that Phoenix has the simulation of gusts all wrong. In Phoenix the gusts have a long duration and they blow the heli in a horizontal direction, but in real life the gusts are shorter in duration and although the gusts are horizontal, they push the heli up or down depending on the orientation of the heli relative to the wind direction. Even with quite strong gusts it seems that there is no horizontal or rotational movement of the heli due to the wind. Flying in gusts with a real heli is very good for learning to use the collective. When hovering with no wind you barely have to mess with the collective at all.
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05-17-2013 08:00 PM  6 years ago
NightF0x

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Toronto, Canada

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Doug,

It is obvious that there is nothing like the real thing...
No simulator will be able to exactly imitate real gusts as they happen in real life...
I really disagree with ppl who advise on buying only a simulator for begginers...

Mellisa,

Within several months and upon feeling flying as a second nature I would definitly progesss to a bigger Heli without spending extra money on the mid size Heli's ...
I do not plan to buy the 300 size and than waste more money on a 400 sizes but invest in a good 700 size Heli to start dealing with the real deal !!
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05-17-2013 08:44 PM  6 years ago
DougPenhall

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San Jose, CA - USA

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I have a Nano, MCPx V1 & V2, 130x, and 400. The 400 is the easiest to fly, but it breaks every time I crash. The others break 1 out of about every 50 crashes. They're definitely a good investment. I have a Blade SR too, but it sucks. It's a 250 size and breaks nearly every time I crash and burns up tail motors and the tail is under powered. There's a kit to make the tail belt driven, but it costs $95 when I got the 400 for $120. I'd rather save that $95 for something better. Although it would be nice to have the SR as a spare for when the 400 is broken, I don't think it's worth the $95 when I can get a used Nano for less than that. If I see an MCPx BL for cheap I'll get that, or another 130x.

I'm guessing that your 700 should be even easier to fly than my 400, but I'm also guessing that it will be a lot more expensive to fix too.
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05-18-2013 07:20 AM  6 years ago
Scanman

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Centralia, WA USA

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I agree with Mellisa. Before I bought a bird I spent a lot of time on a sim, like a year and a half. During that time I researched helis and got in contact with locals to see what they flew and why. I learned about upgrades and such and knew what I wanted in a big heli. When I found what I felt was a loaded heli with all the stuff I would eventually want on it I bought it. I continued sim practice and went to a Nano and then a mCPX BL. Because of the expense and having the bird I want I take my training on the bird very serious and slow. I don't go beyond my comfort level and have a mentor to go to and progress with. I believe in muscle memory and have developed it using the sim and smaller birds and am currently applying that to my 600n in practise. Slow is OK for me. Best wishes on this addictive journey.Vic
G380, G500, G630C, G770C
Aerodyne MD500E 600
Ecureuil AS350 700, Bell 222 800
Jeti DS-14 AMA 611227
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05-18-2013 03:37 PM  6 years ago
DougPenhall

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San Jose, CA - USA

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Scanman, I got my Nano and MCPx before I got a sim, so I don't really know how well it works for a complete beginner. I crashed my Nano a lot before learning to hover, then the MCPx was easy. The sim helped me a lot with sideways and nose in hover. I still can't do upside down hover on the sim, but I haven't been practicing that yet.

I'd like to know your opinion on learning to fly you Nano and MCPx after using the sim for so long. Did you hover right away in all orientations? Or did you still have to spend a few days or weeks practicing? Did you crash a lot before learning?
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05-18-2013 08:24 PM  6 years ago
Scanman

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Centralia, WA USA

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Both small helis are a challenge to a noob. No, I was not able to go from the sim to doing all orientations with the Nano and mCPX BL. What I learned on the sim is again training my mind and my thumbs to read the bird in flight and carry out what is needed to maintain flight, correct a boo boo, avoid object contact, etc. I took those learned muscle memory capabilities and applied them in application to a real flying bird. This took time also, but I am now doing figure 8's and circles, nose in, side in, and a loop or roll sometimes without crashing because instinct is taking over. I'm not having to think if I push a stick a certain way what is the bird going to do. Hard to explain but it just developed with slow, determined, practice (stick time). If I could put it in a pill I'd make a ton of money. It's just what I am doing and my experience. Thanks for asking Vic
G380, G500, G630C, G770C
Aerodyne MD500E 600
Ecureuil AS350 700, Bell 222 800
Jeti DS-14 AMA 611227
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05-20-2013 08:36 PM  6 years ago
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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I would also like to stress that I do not intend to express the need for a pilot who has only been in the hobby for two weeks to spend big money on a 700 size heli just for the purposes of trainig.

700 is an extremely stable machine, but I wouldn't recommend it for a brand new pilot. It's an intimidating machine for a new pilot with alot of power so it can really do some damage in the wrong hands under the right circumstances.

I would suggest that once a new pilot decides that he/she is serious about the hobby and is willing to put forth the investment for a good machine, I would suggest nothing smaller than a 500-550 class (maybe even a 450, but that pushing it) machine, but no more than a 600 or 50 class. Actually, a 550 class seems comfortable enough for the new pilots and still be fully capable and stable in less than perfect wind and weather conditions. Takes a little bit to out grow them as well. MCPs and Nanos can be quickly outgrown when you hit the sweetspots during training.
Mellisa
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05-20-2013 09:20 PM  6 years ago
NightF0x

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Toronto, Canada

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Mellisa,

Your advise is excatly what I was planning to do...
As soon as I feel confident enough flying that MCPX and getting all the manuvers right with fluent control I would definitly get a 600-700 size heli...
The only reason I was saying 700 and not 600 is due to the slight difference in the price of these two Helis that make it me think about adding couple hunderd bux and going for a bigger and better Heli than spending later more money on a 700 for a slightly bigger size...
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05-20-2013 09:53 PM  6 years ago
Ladymagic

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South Korea

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That makes sense and it's very smart, but keep in mind that even though the kit price from a 600 to a 700 kit is only a couple hundred bucks, the cost to operate and the cost to fix and maintain is where a 700 starts to run away with your wallet.

700s will suck down a gallon of fuel in about 7 flights where a 600 is more like 12 or so. Of course, this all depends on your needle settings and flying style, but even at a fruggle setting...a 90 class engine can still suck down some fuel.

I am not knocking a 700 machine at all; I think they are awesome machines and are a blast to fly. In fact, I prefer my 700 over all 6 of my smaller class helis. But, when you are training and drilling the basics, a smaller, 600 class heli will give you a bit more flying time off of a gallon which is economical and practical for training. This is assuming your are going nitro vs electric. Electric batteries are pretty expensive with either and are routinely damaged in a crash.

If you want to get that 700. I think that's great!, but I do want you to keep in mind over all, it will cost you a little bit more to operate. On a positive note, you'll never outgrow a 700 machine and they are a blast to fly and auto when the time comes.
Mellisa
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