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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › What makes a heli be crisp and pop?
05-12-2013 02:10 AM  6 years ago
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3kidzheli

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columbia, ms usa

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What makes a heli be crisp and pop?
What are the prime ingredients in a heli that "pops". I see some don't have that "wall" on the end of the maneuver and some really stick! I know mine don't and I'm running digi servos. Blades? Head speed? Surely there isn't just one major thing but what are they that make up that exact combo that produces a rock solid popping heli? If your heli "sticks" what do you use?
There is no such thing as up, it's all out...
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05-12-2013 02:27 AM  6 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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Hate to break it to you but that perfect pop and lock is about 90% collective management.

I don't have it.lol...

Then comes light weight and high head speed.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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05-12-2013 02:30 AM  6 years ago
3kidzheli

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I thought it may have been in the type of servo or blade combo to head speed or something. My helis feel squishy on transition from neg to pos collective, not sloppy but not locked in either. I was watching a video and noticed how precise the moves are and how flat the wall is at the end of each.There is no such thing as up, it's all out...
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05-12-2013 02:41 AM  6 years ago
rudyy

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That is smack 3D.. Yea it is all about collective management. I am not up that level of flying either.
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05-12-2013 07:42 PM  6 years ago
fenderstrat

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Aston,Pa

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Guys like Tareq,Nick M,Bobby Watts,Bert K they have it and if you'll notice it doesn't matter what heli they are flying.Even if they are at an event and flying someone else's heli.I have seen Bobby personally just grab someones tx and fly their heli and his style and control were identical to when he flys his helis.That should tell you everything right thereCompass helis Support Team
PerformancePlusRC field rep
Mini Titan/SE
TEAM KBDD
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05-12-2013 08:13 PM  6 years ago
Jeff polisena

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westpalmbeachflorida usa

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It's the pilots skills . You fly ahead of tricks and hit full collective to stop Heli but let off just before bogging and holding Heli at the "Wall" .Practice ,good management .I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)
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05-12-2013 09:38 PM  6 years ago
sonnyhad

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Holland,Mi

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I sure as heck don't have it either, that's why after almost 5 years, those guys still amaze me!Bald Pilots usually wear hats!
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05-12-2013 09:56 PM  6 years ago
3kidzheli

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Agreed! Although i am a lot more crisp with electric than nitro, maybe it's the power. There is no such thing as up, it's all out...
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05-12-2013 11:37 PM  6 years ago
Funky Trex

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Westerville, OH - USA

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Definately 90%+ pilot related.

Every time I think one of my helis isn't flying good enough, the Pro at our field flies them and shows me how capable they really are. Even the helis without much power, great servos, lipos, etc, he can make them fly MUCH better than I thought was possible with them. A strong setup definately helps and can make everything even more amazing in the right hands, but most of those moves are due to the pilot on the sticks more than the components installed.
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05-13-2013 12:25 AM  6 years ago
3kidzheli

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Maybe my flying is sloppy cause my hand writing is too.... There is no such thing as up, it's all out...
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05-13-2013 01:08 AM  6 years ago
Funky Trex

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A few years ago I took a video of my buddy flying his Trex 250. He just got the heli the same week they were originally released. I was very interested since my 450 has always been my favorite heli. After watching him fly the 250, I was convinced this was the next heli for me. I flew this same heli on this same day after his next flight. I could have sworn he swapped the motor and gyro. I managed to blow out the tail almost immediately nearly crashing the heli. It also felt like it had half the power it looked like it had during his flights. After a few minutes of some of my worst flying ever, I gave him back his remote and humbly relized just how much of it is the pilot.

Watch at YouTube

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05-13-2013 05:11 AM  6 years ago
DougPenhall

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San Jose, CA - USA

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When you say, "collective management" what exactly do you mean?
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05-13-2013 05:30 AM  6 years ago
mattox

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Phoenix,AZ-usa

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Haha try flying an old xcell with old wood blades you will know what collective management means.

Mattox
MingDa helicopters,Scorpion US Power pack/Haiyin/Astroid designs
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05-13-2013 01:25 PM  6 years ago
RogerRabbit62

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Thuerigen germany

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For the WALL it is beside pitch management also high RPM and a lot of pitch range to make it look and Sound "brutal".
The bigger the heli and the more mass and power it has the more brutal it sounds.
The gobblin people seem to like that manouver a lot.

But you can fly a decent WaLL on a micro even. It does not sound so brutal then.

Timing on the collective is sharp also.

Best Training is constant height backflips with a low power nitro on the sim. There you get a feeling for the stopping point.
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05-15-2013 09:19 PM  6 years ago
Mark C

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Houston, TX - USA

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What makes a heli be crisp and pop?
A Castle Creations ESC. Makes smoke and sizzle and interesting smells to boot!

Sorry.... Since nobody else was going for that low hanging fruit I just couldn't pass that one up
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05-15-2013 10:01 PM  6 years ago
Santiago P

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Dayton

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When you say, "collective management" what exactly do you mean?
For 3D:
Collective management is the ability to change collective fast enough to make the blades bite and make more lift, WITHOUT getting them on the edge of stall, AKA never loosing blade speed. Is it also know as energy management.

As the rotor moves through the air the blades see a "relative" angle of attack as they fly. On our models blades can handle 4-5 of delta change optimal. Once the entire helicopter is accelerated in one direction more delta pitch can be added to go faster in that direction, OR less to accelerate in the opposite direction. Top pilots may program up to 16 deg of collective, but they never let the blades see more that a few degrees of instantaneous change.

A good pilot has an "uncanny" feel or 6th sence to how hard the blades are working and even with constant changes you never hear the rotor "bog".

We, mere mortals add and subtract pitch until we hear the blades scream for mercy, or see smoke or crap falling out of the machine.

Dont be this guy:

"BLURRRRRRRRR"
hey Bob, looks like you popped a link or two, better use some collective management...

In that case means to collectively manage to run the hell AWAY from the helicopter!

S
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05-15-2013 10:31 PM  6 years ago
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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Collective management
Is inputting just "enough" collective both cyclic and pitch to get the job done. Managing your collective was more important back in the old raptor 50 days, prior to carbon fiber and big electric motors.

With today's electric motors and 12S systems a lot of people simply power through maneuvers using 12+ degrees of pitch or more.

IMO - if your having trouble with collective management. The first step is to max your pitch out at 10 degrees. If your still having trouble, drop in a .50 sized motor, and if your still having issues, do it in a Raptor 50.
Old Guys Rule!
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05-16-2013 01:54 PM  6 years ago
3kidzheli

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columbia, ms usa

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I see where that applies. But one thing I was considering were blades. The 50 I have had Vblades to begin with and after a slight crash I went with edge. With the V's it was way more responsive with less collective need to do stunts than with edge blades. Obviously that is a point that many will have opinions on but from first hand exp I can tell a difference. I have not changed anything else on it but blades.There is no such thing as up, it's all out...
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05-16-2013 02:16 PM  6 years ago
MartyH

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USA

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There is a lot more to blades than simply brand so don't get too caught up in how you like a particular pair of VBlades. You can do the same thing with many other brands when they're configured similarly. These days there are many, many choices that fly well.
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05-16-2013 09:44 PM  6 years ago
KC

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WA

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Vs are only more responsive because of their chord, that gives them a deeper stall point and more lift at the same rpm, but also higher drag.

were those flybarred V blades? FBL blades have the center mass out further than flybar blades. Not sure if Edge even makes a flybar blade.

Overdriving the dampening and servo expo (reversing the expo) can usually get the center range of the cyclic to snap on command if you cannot get more dampening or stiffer blades.
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › What makes a heli be crisp and pop?
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