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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › The safety debate thread.
05-11-2013 09:17 AM  6 years ago
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Rotormaster

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Australia

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The safety debate thread.
No doubt you have already figured that this thread is in response to the recent thread of the little fellow's school demo.
Enough people had already voiced their safety concerns in there, so I did not feel it the right thing to do to litter my opinions upon it as well.

Clearly, this is a topic of very polarised contention. Given this, I don't understand why we have been so reluctant to bring it out in the open, and begin some much needed communication on this very important topic... obviously, some of you have been itching to do so. Here is the right place to do it.
I'm also guilty of taking them to an airshow where an F-15 was making his turns 300' over our heads, banked hard over on it's side so close you could easily see his helmet, it was awesome I'll also admit to taking them on rollercoasters and sometimes not yelling at them when I see them riding their bikes without a helmet. I'm probably taking too many chances, I should round them up and send them to their rooms with helmets and full pads just in case
According to the theme here I shouldn't let my son out of the car at the flying field
Rest y'all better stay in the house a rain drop might fatally wound ya.
Do not go to IRCHA or any event for that means if this video makes you think safty.
Folks get over it. If these machines are so dangerous, then we shouldn't be flying them at all. Let's stop taking any kind of risk.
I have highlighted these 'arguments' from that thread because they all have one thing in common... they are all based upon a fabricated premise. Not only do these arguments fail to invalidate their targets, but they are not even in any direct relevance to them. As somebody who has studied formal logic, I find it quite unsettling to read these comments.

Beyond the assumption of mental retardation (read carefully), I cannot fathom how anybody could genuinely fail to see this level of incoherence. And as I know most of you know how to read reasonably well, the only conclusions I can arrive at are:

1. You actually believe that people on this forum are so stupid that they will fall for your pseudo-arguments.

2. You are just being lazy.

If you are one of the people who made one of the comments in question, I am genuinely interested to know which of my two conclusions is correct.
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05-11-2013 09:31 AM  6 years ago
Rotormaster

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Australia

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And just when I though those were good...
Oh and if it were not for risk, what would be the point of living?
After more than two and a half millennia of debate... YOU, have finally unravelled the meaning of life!

WOW!!!

I just can't wait to tell the guys on the philosophy forum that they can finally stop banging their heads!
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05-11-2013 10:32 AM  6 years ago
RGorham

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Livermore, CA - USA

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This thread will actually be interesting to follow. Thanks for starting it.
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05-11-2013 11:29 AM  6 years ago
rpat

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Weirton, W. Va.

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Lets start by thinking about the risks that we take every day. Every day you get in your two ton vehicle and get on the road with every one else and drive at speeds t could kill you at a moment's notice and all of us think nothing about it. Some people even get drunk or smoked up and still get behind the wheel. Life AT TIMES is a risk period.
There are some things that one can do to prevent or at least limit the risks of life like seat belts and defensive driving BUT accidents still happen. This is why the foo shield was invented LOL. No doubt that even if you take all of the precautions that you can think of things can and will go awry.
trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2
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05-11-2013 11:40 AM  6 years ago
RCHSF

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NC

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Who cares!!! we know the danger when we bring it home. If a parent does not wish to let their child LIVE A LIFE then they should put their child in a padded room and locked away for life to keep him/them safe. We as humans are very curious. We get interested in dangerous stuff. Why because were adrenalin junkies. Every damn single Man woman and child of walking age. The guy already said he had the O/K all way around. I just don't see the point. If you're all afraid your kid my not come home from school, or where ever else because a thousand other reasons, boiler might explode, tornado, bomb, toy heli might fall out of the sky, or REAL ONE might just happen to fall right on your door step. Don't live in fear of what might happen. Just live.

Peace, live long and prosper.
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05-11-2013 11:41 AM  6 years ago
MartyH

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USA

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In regards to daily risks, some are unavoidable if you wish to live anything to what most of us would consider a normal or average life. However, that does not mean we should be open to limitless risk or accept unnecessary risk. We pick and choose these and we each have different limits. One limit I think not enough people share is the risk they take with other people's safety. If you want to fly an R/C heli a couple feet in front of your own face, and other's are not around, that's you're business. When you bring your heli to the playground and other people don't understand the risk they are being exposed to, you have crossed the line of good judgement.
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05-11-2013 01:05 PM  6 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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good question, (uh, what was the question, lol)

I flung a reply in the thread of question.

Quick call goes like this. Some people accept risk as part of living in this complicated world, others do because they have to make a living and risk is inherent. Lots of people are naive and have no idea what risk they are exposed to, and lots of people are willingly blind to risk so they can continue to play while flirting with the odds because its EXCITING. The little guys pappy might fall into the latter.

Granted the little guy is a competent flyer, his dad over-riding the kids own margin of safety is a no-no "closer, lower".

The 700 was not appropriate, a 500 would have been much less worry, and now criticism.

Dads 'ere in the wild west, and all over the world for that matter,let there 7 years old's pick up real guns and fire them.

What did you say was a "PART OF LIFE" ?

The vid would have been super impressive if all the kids had a weapon and took the heli down, but apparently that is very difficult to do, take an rc heli down. Some one might have due to Beginners Luck, lol. Make it a Laser like this,

Watch at YouTube

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05-11-2013 01:11 PM  6 years ago
MartyH

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USA

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I'm missing the connection about risk with the laser video.
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05-11-2013 01:22 PM  6 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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a toy heli is nothing compared to a world that is ready to be blown to SMITHEREENS, albeit somewhat extreme but true, this is the world that kids have been born into.

If I were to protect an audience by placing a tracking laser aimed at the heli and ready it to destroy the heli on the first sign of trouble, then there is no risk. We have what is called a "self defence mechanism" that protects us from idiots and risk for the most part, for the most part. The little kids would have needed something as fast as the laser system to pluck off the heli should it have veered toward them.

Very odd, someone provoked me with a shop laser yesterday, partly pissed me off but led me to this.
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05-11-2013 01:24 PM  6 years ago
lsnover

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Lehigh Valley, PA

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There is a level of acceptable and managed risk, then there is carelessness. The question is where does one begin and the other end.

Life is full of risk, but we do what we can to manage those risks (ie. air bags, seat belts in cars). When we face risks without taking advantage of reasonable opportunities to mitigate that risk, we approach carelessness.

Living life to the fullest involves facing risk. Facing risk without care is foolishness. Enjoy life, but also VALUE life.
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05-11-2013 01:37 PM  6 years ago
rpat

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isnover
Great reply.
trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2
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05-11-2013 01:48 PM  6 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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I AGREE WITH ALL THE SAFETY CONCERNS discussed in that thread and this one.
I hate school yard flyers.
I hate park flyers.
I hate people who fly anywhere there is an unsuspecting crowd.

That particular video is not any of these.
It was a planned and organized demonstration.
Kids talked about it for weeks no doubt.
They talked about it with their parents no doubt.
It was the fourth time it was done.
They knew it was going to happen when they left for school.

That flight was maybe one of the safest I have seen in regard to planning and supervision.

Maybe a better site could have been used...Maybe not...Does this little school for 1st graders even have a ball diamond?
I literally never use the word literally right.
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05-11-2013 04:20 PM  6 years ago
Rotormaster

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Australia

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I'm still waiting to hear which of my conclusions was correct.

Anyway.
Who cares!!!
I don't know... but I might be able to tell you the answer if you tell me what it is you're talking about. What don't you care about?
we know the danger when we bring it home.
Bring WHAT home???
If a parent does not wish to let their child LIVE A LIFE then
Yes. Like this model father who truly lets his daughter live her life.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/loca...e-bridge-piling

And these parents who where so caring and considerate of their children that they never did a thing to stop them living their lives. Oh.... wait.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...y-on-track.html

Oh well... there are risks everywhere, anyway. Plus, it was just a bit of fun. Isn't that what life is about? being at risk and having fun?
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05-11-2013 04:44 PM  6 years ago
Rotormaster

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Australia

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Granted the little guy is a competent flyer, his dad over-riding the kids own margin of safety is a no-no "closer, lower".
I have to agree.

There has to be a reason why the boy kept a distance (except where instructed otherwise).

From what I perceived, the boy was still in total control of the heli when brought down close... certainly didn't seem to sweat.

Nevertheless, I think it's entirely possible that he did not feel 100% comfortable flying it down close. He might have had complete confidence in his skill and control over the helicopter, but not so much in the conditions under which he was flying (30 kids right behind him).

Whatever it was, he definitely seemed to be playing it safe, and good on him for it.
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05-11-2013 04:50 PM  6 years ago
MartyH

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USA

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....so many people hang on the whole aspect of skill. What about mechanical and electrical failure? It's really THAT that worries more than a guy dumb thumbing. All the skill and preplanning a flight cannot prevent a broken heli from careening into a crowd of people and the closer the heli is to people, the more likely someone is going to get hurt, or worse.
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05-11-2013 04:53 PM  6 years ago
Rotormaster

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The parents knew.
McKrackin, I'm afraid to say this argument simply doesn't hold... but then again, you already know that.
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05-11-2013 05:35 PM  6 years ago
icanfly

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ontario

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anyone forget daring? oh, can you do the hedges with that thing, or maybe the neighbors, oh I need some trimming up high on that tree I can't get to, betcha couldn't land on your head, I dare you, and throw in a couple of thou while we're at it, please, pretty please?

It isn't the machines but what they lead to that gets humanity into trouble. Veer off the intended path to dangerous places unknown and its tempting fate while flirting with catastrophe, Hollywood knows that.

You know they ban parents in some kids Hockey arenas, any wonder.
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05-11-2013 05:55 PM  6 years ago
HeliOCD

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San Diego, CA

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That flight was maybe one of the safest I have seen in regard to planning and supervision.
This will be my last post on the matter. I thought I had only two cents, but found another penny deep in my pocket.
Supervision is great, but how does that stop a heli from hitting those children?
Maybe a better site could have been used...Maybe not...Does this little school for 1st graders even have a ball diamond?
Most definitly one could have easely been used. I do think every school I have seen has a fence somewhere. What planning are you talking of.
Also how is it you know of everyones approval to his flying that heli.
I really doubt every parent was made aware of the details. Think about the average parent, Oh little Ryan is flying his helicopter at school today. To most, they would picture a toy not the beast he was flying..
Its all earth!
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05-11-2013 06:55 PM  6 years ago
Roger Rocket

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Morgan Hill,Ca-United States

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Don't worry, nothing is going to go happen, maybe.

Wow, WTF happened.

Oh, if I only knew of the possible danger. I had no idea.

Oh God, I'm so sorry, I didn't think anything like this would happen.

Oh sh*t, what happened ?

I thought I was being safe, sorry.

Murphy's Law: What can go wrong, will go wrong.
Not true.
What can go wrong, usually works perfectly well, most of the time.

Damn, I never thought that would happen.

I just couldn't foresee that happening.
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05-11-2013 06:59 PM  6 years ago
HeliAdict

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Texas

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So, all you over the top safety people, why are you flying these death machines?
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