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05-10-2013 07:11 PM  6 years ago
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ssozonoff

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Switzerland

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SBUS2 Protocol
Hi All,

Dont know if anyone from Futaba visits this forum but here goes. I am personally tired of seeing companies try and protect their protocols!! It stints innovation and in the end hurts them more than anything else!

Telemetry is cool and anyone should be given the information they need to develop their own sensors to hook into the telemetry bus. Today Jeti are providing their protocol spec. and its possible to make you own sensors. Sadly this does not help me because for the moment since I am still staying true to Futaba and have just received my FX32.

None the less I am very sure we are going to see people start moving towards the more open systems which are now proving to be of high quality and just as capable as Futaba.

I am amazed not to find anywhere on the net a solution to connect my JetCat ECU to SBUS2!! I would build it myself since the JetCat protocol is simple but nobody including myself has reverse engineered the SBUS2 protocol.... and really we should not have to!

Comon Futaba, pull your thumbs out and give something back to the community!! Dont think that you have such a cool protocol and someone might copy it, your value is not there!

OK .. done venting and hope someone at Futaba is listening!

Thanks,
Serge
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05-10-2013 08:06 PM  6 years ago
modtron

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Oxford. UK

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Serge,
I mentioned all this to JetCat when I was with them in March a about their ECU's being linked to Futaba telemtry.
It's already done to work with Multiplex and Spektrum.
There (JetCat) answer was that they would get around to it, maybe sometime next year but it was not a priority issue !

modtron
Oxford UK
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05-10-2013 08:08 PM  6 years ago
ssozonoff

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Switzerland

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Clearly not ....

My point is that if Futaba would simply open up their protocol we would already have had this a long time ago :-(

I cant wait till next year!

Thanks Nigel,
Serge
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05-10-2013 08:14 PM  6 years ago
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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Serge,
I couldn't agree more that these companies should disclose their protocols! Those who are not need to take a lesson from those who are.

But when a company such as Spektrum offers their own branded sensors... They clearly believe releasing the protocol is not in their best interest.

The big companies need to wake up to the fact that there are now very capable, very open radio solutions available on the market. And at a much lower cost, as well.

- John
RR rules!
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05-10-2013 10:23 PM  6 years ago
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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I don't think the big boys feel threatened in any way by open source stuff. Don't expect them to publish their protocols. Get a FrSky.
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05-11-2013 12:47 AM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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nobody including myself has reverse engineered the SBUS2 protocol.... and really we should not have to!
Give it time, I'm sure there are folks working on it already. I agree we shouldn't have to, but it is what it is.
  
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05-11-2013 02:45 AM  6 years ago
brey

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staples MN

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Read below, It says Coming soon. They also have a air speed senser to for sbus2.
There is one other system That is working with jetcat but I can't find it or remember what it is called.

Web link:http://www.cb-elektronics.de/Index%20english.html

JetCat Turbine compatible converter interface. Bringing you all the important ECU turbine data to your transmitter display. Available and compatible for Graupner/SJ HoTT and Multiplex/ACT-Europe MSB Bus. Futaba Sbus2 coming soon.
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05-11-2013 02:52 AM  6 years ago
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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Well if you went past the first page you would find:
Emulates the GPS Sensor F1675 for dynamic pressure speed measurement
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05-11-2013 03:32 AM  6 years ago
brey

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staples MN

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So that means it's not a true air speed senser or what??
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05-11-2013 03:47 AM  6 years ago
brey

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staples MN

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Ok, I understand now.
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05-11-2013 06:43 AM  6 years ago
ssozonoff

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Switzerland

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Hi,
I don't think the big boys feel threatened in any way by open source stuff. Don't expect them to publish their protocols. Get a FrSky.
Thats just the point and probably the same thinking Nokia had before they went down the drain.Yes thanks, I am already in contact with him. But to prove the point, has has had to reverse engineer the protocol.

But what I am really trying to get at is that they would do so much more good for themselves than bad building a developer community around their stuff.

I recall someone writing about having to sign an NDA with Futaba to gain access to the protocol, but that it was taking months and I dont even know if he got it in the end.

Serge
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05-11-2013 01:45 PM  6 years ago
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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Yes obviously he has reverse engineered the protocol. BUT that is only half of the link. How do you display the data on the transmitter ? Or how do you get the receiver to poll the new sensor ? How do you assign it a slot ? If the Futaba h/w and s/w does not think it is one of theirs, it won't work. Were you trying to save money by buying clones ?

Of course, you could easily design a sensor/telemetry system where the TX display information was embedded into the open source sensor. This is what JKos wants ! Too late for that.
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05-11-2013 03:13 PM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

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USA

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But what I am really trying to get at is that they would do so much more good for themselves than bad building a developer community around their stuff.
You need to understand it's Futaba's technology. They developed it and they're marking it. Just because you think building a developer community is a good thing doesn't mean they feel that way. They are in no way obligated to release parts of their technology for public consumption.

I'm not saying I agree with that, just saying that's the reality of the business world.
  
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05-11-2013 03:48 PM  6 years ago
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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If there is enough demand for a new sensor, Futaba or JR will build it and release a new TX S/W update to incorporate it. Don't expect any third party to piggyback on this proprietary technology - without paying.

This stuff is just now getting off the ground. Everyone has the same set of sensors and they are never in stock. It's like PCM 512. It seems to be evolving rather than designed. I would have designed it to be:

1) plug and play
2) expandable

You buy a new sensor and plug it in and things start to happen. The RX boots up and finds it. Reports it to the TX. The TX asks you where you want to display it, rate, limits, alarms, logging. When you unplug one and reboot, the TX asks you if you want to DELETE Y/N. It's not rocket science.

And oh yeah, I would have transmitted the data back to the TX BETWEEN the control packets.
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05-11-2013 06:12 PM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

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USA

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Don't expect any third party to piggyback on this proprietary technology - without paying.
Aren't third parties already piggybacking on Futaba's proprietary technology (e.g., VBAR using SBUS)? I'm not sure if they're paying, but I can't see Futaba licensing their technology to a competitor in the FBL space.
  
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05-11-2013 06:51 PM  6 years ago
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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Well sure but there is not a VBar screen on the transmitter ! I think the sensor display information should be embedded in the sensor and not a s/w update for the TX.

The S.Bus is probably a std. industrial one-wire bus so that the TX/RX chips are COTS. That would make it easy to crack.
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05-11-2013 07:50 PM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

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USA

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Right...seems like we're talking about to different things here: 1) the data transmission protocol (SBUS2) and 2) the view of the data.

IMHO, rendering the view in the TX is going to be an outdated waste of time. Most everyone has a Smartphone/tablet these days and the ability to modify and update the views in a Smartphone can be done quickly and easily compared the speed at which the TX manufacturers release updates. Sending the telemetry data to Smartphone/tablet would be the best long term solution. I realize Spektrum had/has a module to do this but I don't fly Spektrum and the last I saw it only supported iPHone. I use Android.
The S.Bus is probably a std. industrial one-wire bus so that the TX/RX chips are COTS. That would make it easy to crack.
It's even more basic than that.
  
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05-11-2013 11:20 PM  6 years ago
jlchapman

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Mapleton, Utah

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The SBUS2 protocol is pretty simple. Plenty of articles on the Internet about SBUS protocol. If I had more time I would at least build a data logger for SBUS2.

I started a blog about building a data logger and sensors but my work keeps me too busy. I posted some pictures of the data output.
[url=http://sbustelemetrysensors.blogspot.com/]

Jerry
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05-12-2013 03:15 AM  6 years ago
Ace Dude

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USA

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Nice work Jerry. I've been dying to start playing with a Rasberry Pi I recently acquired, but due to work commitments (and some helis I need to build) I haven't had a chance to do much with it.  
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05-13-2013 07:46 AM  6 years ago
ssozonoff

rrNovice

Switzerland

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Thank you Jerry for this.

Lets keep the terms correct to avoid confusion. We are currently talking about the SBUS2 protocol which enables telemetry.

Originally in this post I was not attempting to bash the protocol but more simply state that trying to keep it secret serves Futaba/Robbe no purpose what so ever and hinders innovation and good feedback from 3rd party developers. As we clearly see the protocols have and will be fully reverse engineered but it just adds a barrier to entry which is not necessary! Personally if I was Futaba I would have released and Arduino Library a long time ago!

OK so with regards to the protocol. From my limited knowledge of it the main concern I have is the "hardcoded" aspect of the units. For the moment liquids are not supported so showing fuel flow or amount of remaining fuel in a tank is not possible or at least not with the correct unit display. From one of my conversations it seems that a future firmware (maybe this year still) will add these units to the list within the Tx.

From this perspective I believe Jeti's protocol is more flexible and as such more developer friendly ... but I wont go there since I am still a Futaba guy at the moment and just received my FX32 so will be playing with the telemetry stuff soon.

To conclude I dont want this thread to become a basking war as I would prefer a more productive discussion around SBUS2 to promote a host or 3rd party SBUS2 sensors developed by a community of creative people.

Best,
Serge
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