RunRyder RC
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1600 views POST REPLY
05-07-2013 02:32 PM  6 years ago
Topic Vote0Post 1
arcticflyer

rrNovice

Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Canada

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Can't keep belt tight!
OK...I am really peeved! Am actually starting to fly this thing (G20) and after each tank run the belt is to loose again and the vibrations and gyrations start.

Question 1 - Is it just the belt stretching and will that stop after a certain amount of use?

Question 2 - Is there a way to fix this?...I have some ideas but would rather use a tried and tested fix.

Question 3 - Should I throw in the towel and get the TT drive conversion?

Thanks for the help in advance!
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
05-07-2013 03:48 PM  6 years ago
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
So:
1.) yes it is, and no it will not.

2.)Yes but still requires "checking"...I used to run the belt, but had to adjust it every few weeks or so or when there was a drastic temperature change. If I did not, it would cause the belt to "sing" inside the tail boom at certin RPMs and cause strange vibs that would mess with the gyro. So to keep it tight, I drilled a hole thru the rear plastic housing into the boom and "pinned" it into place...it held it just fine, until the temp would change, causing vibs again (that sometimes sounded like metalic clanging or the boom supports comming loose).

3.)Honestly...if you load the tail up enough that its making the belt loose...I would have to say go with the TT option...
The TT option gets rid of all that belt BS...just make sure when you do go the TT option that you take the time to make the TT smooth. When I got my TT for the G20 it was binding up. Issues I had was the drive shaft was a bit too long (or plastic ends need to be a bit deeper), caused the drive shaft to push the bevel gears to tight against the other gears causing binding and excessive gear tightness. Solution there was to drill the slots a bit deeper. Then the dogbone shaft end Pegs were too long for the plastic slots they ride in, solution there was to dremel them a bit shorter (the dogbone pegs)so that they would not bind in the drive slot.

After that the TT was WAY WAY smoother than the belt...and in my case allwed me to run higher gains on the gyro.

BTW I would recommend making a good solid Gyro mount that mounts between the rear frames above the tail base mount and just behind the elevator mech... the gyro mount that looks like an angle plate that mounts in between the boom base halfs is not a solid as it needs to be and can vibrate side to side under certin RPMs.
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
05-07-2013 05:20 PM  6 years ago
arcticflyer

rrNovice

Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Canada

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Thanks
Thanks RM3 -
As far as load...I am a beginner so this thing is only hovering and flying in small circuits.

Thought about drilling and pinning so with that confirmed I might just try it. Am really tempted to go the TT.

The one way bearing started making a creaking sound last night so I am pulling down the unit today to have a look. I guess once I get all the bugs worked out it will be a decent heli...but for crying out loud I'd like to fly a bit in the process.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
05-07-2013 05:57 PM  6 years ago
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

MyPosts All Forum Topic
💎Sustaining Member
By simply adding a single wrap of 3m electrical tape to boom rotor end, it will keep "plastic" from riding forward as it has something to bite into. Others have *sanded it instead.

EDITED:
*Both boom and plastic with 120 grit...needs to be coarse.
~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-07-2013 07:00 PM  6 years ago
arcticflyer

rrNovice

Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Canada

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I did sand it a bit before putting it together just to rough up the outer surface but (1) tank and it is loose again.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
05-07-2013 08:30 PM  6 years ago
geomecc

rrKey Veteran

Long Island ,NY

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I had the same problem with the belt. I tried the metal tail bracket things (idk what it's called) and it still came loose so i pulled the tail assy so the belt had a lil more tension and drilled a tiny hole and used a small servo screw rigt in front of the metal clamp thing so when the heli ran it loosened up to the screw and then the belt tension was perfect and had no more problems with it coming loose. now I just need to get the metal bearing holders for the tail and i cAn fly it again. I might be thinking on selling it though. it's basically a complete heli plus another airframe and a bunch of extra parts.R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-08-2013 02:55 AM  6 years ago
gboden

rrNovice

Chugiak, AK

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Buried in the G20 FYI thread (https://rc.runryder.com/t551272p46/?p=5042124#RR) is a recommendation to use sand paper and glue it to the boom on the front transmission side and then tighten the belt. I have done that and it has run for a very long time. I used a paper punch and made two or so sand paper punches (or chad if you will) and went from there. 100 grit maybe, it was 2010 when I did it. It looks in the picture that they put it on the rear but I put mine on the front.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-08-2013 03:36 AM  6 years ago
geomecc

rrKey Veteran

Long Island ,NY

MyPosts All Forum Topic
doesn't the belt adjust from the back ?R I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-08-2013 02:05 PM  6 years ago
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

MyPosts All Forum Topic
💎Sustaining Member
Absolutely. The front just gets "wedged" in (all the way) and the belt keeps it there.~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-08-2013 02:31 PM  6 years ago
fla heli boy

rrElite Veteran

cape coral, florida

MyPosts All Forum Topic

Bought this set up used on here. Looks like it will work well. Home made and very well made.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-08-2013 03:03 PM  6 years ago
gboden

rrNovice

Chugiak, AK

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Bottom line up front: If you want to save 165 bucks, try the sandpaper technique, if you don't care, upgrade to the torque tube.

It does adjust from the back AND the front, but by the time I put the tail together I didn't want to take it back apart on the back, besides mine was 'snug' at both interior stops so I just took the easier side apart and adjusted on that end. It only needed a few millimeters for mine. And no, I don't think the belt holds structure to the airframe or hold anything tight but I am not an engineer so I could be wrong. I think the idea is to hold the belt tight, not the belt hold the tail boom together.

Needless to say, mine has run for a very long time. If it wears out or breaks then I might consider a TT upgrade.

RM3 has a fantastic machine with a lot of power and was ready for the upgrade due to the 'singing' and slapping issues that he couldn't get rid of. Also, a new FBL addition...(which I have yet to see RAM)

Just remember, a lot of manufacturers run belts including Miniature Aircraft, Goblin, and Airstar and I would bet that they all require some sort of adjustment over time.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-14-2013 04:09 PM  6 years ago
arcticflyer

rrNovice

Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Canada

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Throwing in the Towel!
Well I am considering ordering a TT conversion kit! Yesterday I broke the second boom support rod (IN FLIGHT) and it nearly cost me the heli as it hung straight down and I had real difficulty landing.
This is a brand new heli that was inspected by numerous experienced guys who were impressed with the build so the vibration problems and the tail not staying tight are unacceptable in my view.
Wish I would have picked another heli for a first big build...but I own it now...so it is a TT.
None of us should have to spend the hours that we spend on the bench trying to get something to fly. Mods to improve performance are one thing mods to simply get it to fly are another.
Sorry about the rant guys I am not usually like this but I just want to fly some.
I made sand paper (chads) last night and will put three on each side of the boom in a line. It is the paper with the sticky stuff on the back so possibly this will work. Will also pin the boom with a screw.
If this doesn't work I might even consider trading it for a 600 or 700 nitro.
Also moved the whole layout around moving the IKON up front on the top tray and away from the vibrating tail boom. Pain in the NECK!
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
05-14-2013 05:34 PM  6 years ago
geomecc

rrKey Veteran

Long Island ,NY

MyPosts All Forum Topic
pin the boom with a screw on the tail rotor side of the boom. that will hold the belt and keep it from coming loose. make sure everything is straight and balanced as possible. the g20 engine is a lil tricky to tune cause the carb is very sensitive (my opinion at least) good luckR I P Roman Jr. Team SKOOKUM SRW EFC
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-14-2013 06:48 PM  6 years ago
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I feel your pain,
hang in there...

one day I was compeled to just take her up about 500 feet, and tail slide down as fast as she could drop...and not pull out.
I felt bad about 30 feet from the pavement and did pull out of the 80mph tail down fall, figured I could give it a bit more love via wallet and throw the bad parts away...

I just can't bring myself to give up on any heli...

It flies really good, but only after a years worth of tinkering and getting rid of the stock stuff.

I do remember one particular POS Xheli 450 pro....it got the 8 lb sledge over concrete along with the junk Blue lipos that puffed after 6 flights.
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
05-14-2013 07:19 PM  6 years ago
arcticflyer

rrNovice

Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Canada

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Sweet!
I would pay to see a video of you bashing that thing! What I am actually considering now is a second (E) heli that I can just throw a battery in and fly if I am working on this thing...one of the 500's.
My goal for this one is eventually a scale Hughes 500E in a Military theme. But have got to get the bugs worked out first.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
05-14-2013 10:44 PM  6 years ago
Billme

rrElite Veteran

MS

MyPosts All Forum Topic
If you got stuff breaking and falling off the heli, then you are most likely sucking air at the insulator or head gasket. Spray some electronic cleaner or starting fluid at the those areas and if the engine goes dead, you got a leak..

I use Honda #4 gasket seal on the head gasket, and high temp silicone between the insulator and engine..This is what I do on a new engine as well..
Sucking air can make the engine hit hard, even at idle, so if you are breaking parts, or they are falling off, look into this...

Also, if you read the FYi where its mention on the boom to use sand paper to ruff it up.. That does not work, I use a cutting disk, and really ruff it up with deep cuts that raise the metal...My boom does not move...I do this on both ends, and none are not pinned
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-20-2013 11:08 PM  6 years ago
arcticflyer

rrNovice

Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Canada

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Finally got to fly!
Well... finally got to fly today
Pinned the tail with a 2.5mm bolt after installing (6) sand paper "chads" inside the Trans case...(3) on each side of the boom.
Moved the Ikon up to the top front tray.
Then...ground angles on the tail support stand outs to bring the rods into the rear bolt position without bending them (poor design)...
Put slices of fuel tubing on each side of the rods with washers to dampen vibration and added a homemade support rod brace....AND
Happy with how it flew today much less vibration (still have lots though)...and nothing broke or flew off of the heli.
I truly believe that the cheapy plastic fan is the primary culprit of the vibration problems and plan on ordering the metal fan...BUT it flew and the tail did not loosen up one bit

SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
05-21-2013 04:29 AM  6 years ago
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Nothing beats flying....especially when somthing you built into it made it happen for you...

BTW it is possible to balance the plastic fan on a Prop balancing tool....just make sure its done with the hub attached....then when its installed onto the engine shaft, make sure to check the runout with a dial indicator (or test indicator) if you have one.

great job getting her back into the air...happy flying!
showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
05-23-2013 05:23 PM  6 years ago
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

MyPosts All Forum Topic
💎Sustaining Member
I truly believe that the cheapy plastic fan is the primary culprit of the vibration problems and plan on ordering the metal fan
I had to sand down the flat side from the "half moon key" in order for the engine shaft to bottom out into hub.

You can tell if needed by first installing hub without key and mark engine shaft. Then install with key and if hub is higher than mark, sand key down as needed. A too long of a key offsets the hub.

As for the aluminum boom support rods, some of us went with longer CF 700 size repositioning them lower with an aluminum post(HI6031S) between the frames. Photo in gallery under mods.
~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-28-2013 03:27 PM  6 years ago
arcticflyer

rrNovice

Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Canada

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Dead on!
Pete - I think what you mentioned about the fan vibration is dead on! My first Hall sensor was destroyed by the fan contacting it...and during the build I checked the clearance all the way around the fan several times prior to start up. I believe that the fan shifted after the first few run ups. I hate the thought of tearing this thing down again and can honestly say I am disappointed with all the problems I have had.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1600 views POST REPLY
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 4  Topic Subscribe

Thursday, February 27 - 10:28 pm - Copyright © 2000-2020 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online