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05-06-2013 12:04 PM  6 years ago
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trillian

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Total-G takeoff question
I have now managed a dozen or so flights with the Total-G (fitted on a Beam Avantgarde).

I just have a quick question; has anyone tried doing takeoffs with the FC gain turned down or off and then flip into your regular gain setting in the air?

I have the FC gain on my aux2 switch and I'm running about 52% gain now and it works very well but I get the feeling the Total-G is a bit more touchy on the ground before taking off. But I don't know what would happen flipping the switch in the air from zero FC gain to the 52% I fly in. Will it just kick in smoothly or could it freak out?
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05-06-2013 03:26 PM  6 years ago
Dr.Don

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I don't know how much experience you have with fbl systems, but most of them are sensitive on the ground. The fbl gyros are analogous to a heading hold tail gyro in that if you input a small cyclic command while the skids are on the ground the fbl system will continue increasing cyclic deflection until it sees the heli respond, often with a flip over. In my experience it is best to stay off the cyclic stick until the heli is airborne. Most of us learned with flybarred machines to input right aileron as you lift off to counteract the tail thrust that causes the heli to slide to the left at lift off. This strategy can be deadly on a fbl heli unless you wait for it to be airborne before inputting the right aileron. Just don't try to fly it until it is airborne.

In answer to your question, I've never known anyone to switch the FC gain off during takeoff.
Dr.Don
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05-06-2013 04:04 PM  6 years ago
trillian

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The other FBL unit I have experience with is the BeastX on a Trex 500 and it is very forgiving on the ground. You can basically treat the BeastX just like you would a flybarred heli and it will not tip over, the key is that you are commanding the input as opposed to the heli being moved without any stick input. (I also ran a BeastX on two other helis, a .50 nitro and a Trex 450 so I am quite used to the routine).

I just get the feeling the Total-G is not as tolerant in that regard. I have never had a tipover with a FBL unit on any heli I have owned, even on a 450 (although I did scrape the blades on the ground once or twice with a 450 when I first got the beastX but I think the biggest issue there was the swash servos were too slow).

In gusty wind conditions I saw the Total-G rock a bit on the ground and had a couple less-than-smooth takeoffs, whereas the beastX was totally un-fazed.
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05-06-2013 05:29 PM  6 years ago
mystar60

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The key with the TotalG is to take off with a throttle curve about 25% across the board. This will keep the TG in decay mode allowing it to lift off without the issue you may be experiencing. Once you lift off switch into IU1 and fly away. Your IU1/2 will be above 25% placing you in TrimLock.

The only thing with the gain would be maybe in a Auto where you may want to drop the flight control gain down, possibly in half.

Kevin
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05-06-2013 05:50 PM  6 years ago
trillian

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Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your reply.

I kinda don't think 25% is very realistic, it puts the headspeed very low and would make the change to idle-up very drastic. Is there a way to bring that up to maybe 40 or 50% threshold ?
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05-06-2013 05:58 PM  6 years ago
MarshallB

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Middle Arkansas

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Also take off at mid stick with zero pitch. I take off in normal on my ENV nitro, gov kicks in, hit idle 1 and roll. I never change any FC gains or anything else during flight and autos are a piece of cake even in trim lock mode which I'm always in after take off. It works pretty much like every other fbl system I've flown.

On the electric, after start up, I do the same. Just don't bump the cyclic stick after setting it on the ground. If you have any doubt, sight verify that the swash is level. Zero pitch on take off is desirable. You can still make small corrections if needed but I really never have issues with. On fbl you really want spool up reasonably quick.

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05-06-2013 09:30 PM  6 years ago
mystar60

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Trillian is this a nitro or electric ?
I am unfamiliar with that model.
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05-06-2013 10:52 PM  6 years ago
trillian

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Hi MyStar60,

The Beam is an electric 600 size heli. It is quite similar to the Compass 6HV regarding the layout of the frames, motor below and Lipos in front etc.
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05-06-2013 11:26 PM  6 years ago
mystar60

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When switching from normal to IU should not be too drastic.
Also Marshall is correct regards to mid stick on take off. I tend to do it without thinking on take off and landing @ mid stick.

You will be much happier.

What happens is if you set normal throttle curve above 30% TrimLock is enabled. With the head not up to speed the phasing can be out so corrections are out of sync. That is why below 30% in decay mode is better, while on the ground @ the slower start up rpm.
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05-07-2013 12:24 AM  6 years ago
trillian

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Well, if I'm going to essentially sacrifice my normal mode as a takeoff and landing only mode then I may as well setup a mix to just change the FC gain with the idle-1 switch.

In either case with what you're suggesting I would have to make idle-1 the new 'normal mode' bring the headspeed down to the best speed for hovering and just cruising and then idle-2 is the full-on upstairs mode for the aeros.

I think on some of my nitros I probably have a lot of the normal mode curve at below 30% but not with the electric ones.

Next time out I'll try setting my normal throttle below 30% but my guess is it will not be a suitable hovering headspeed on this particular heli. But, ya never know. (and by the way, I am not at all a high headspeed maniac, I fly more FAI style rather than aggressive 3D).
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05-07-2013 01:52 AM  6 years ago
JKos

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take off at mid stick with zero pitch
How can you possibly take off at zero pitch?

- John
RR rules!
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05-07-2013 02:31 AM  6 years ago
mystar60

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That term does not mean LIFT OFF.
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05-07-2013 03:54 AM  6 years ago
Dr.Don

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Trillian,

If you are using a CC esc with "set rpm" gov mode, a flat normal curve at 25% can give you any headspeed you want. You set it to be what you want for normal. If you're not using a CC, then this comment is not helpful.
Dr.Don
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05-07-2013 04:04 AM  6 years ago
JKos

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That term does not mean LIFT OFF.
Then what in the world do you mean?

- John
RR rules!
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05-07-2013 04:21 AM  6 years ago
MarshallB

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Middle Arkansas

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Sorry, I should have said spool up at mid stick.. Zero pitch or a slight negative pitch. Once spooled up do whatever.
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05-07-2013 09:00 AM  6 years ago
trillian

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Hi Dr.Don,

No, it's Kontronik Jive 80HV on this heli.
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05-07-2013 11:04 AM  6 years ago
trillian

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Back to my original question, since I already have the FC gain on a switch, is there any reason I can't just flip the gain off when it's on the ground and switch it on in the air? Or set one position to maybe half gain?
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05-07-2013 02:51 PM  6 years ago
MarshallB

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Middle Arkansas

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Just remember with FC off it will react really slow. There is really no reason to do that but it should cause no issue. The main thing is to initiate the unit with the FC on. Then you can turn it off and on at will. I've actually done it before to level the swash if for some reason it was tilted or I wanted to just reset it.
CurtisYoungblood.com
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Spyder Batteries
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05-09-2013 08:26 PM  6 years ago
dchinww

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Seattle, Washington

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Trim Lock
Another option if you are using the Total G governor and an rpm sensor. You can can set the Trim Lock to switch automatically. It will stay in decay mode while it's spooling up or down. When it gets close to the target headspeed it will automatically switch to Trim Lock mode.
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05-09-2013 08:37 PM  6 years ago
trillian

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Hey there dchinww, Yeah that is probably the ideal situation but I'm using the Total-G on an electric heli which uses the governor mode in a Kontronik ESC.

Today I discovered how to change the trim lock threshold (it was set to 30% throttle) so for the moment I brought it up to 40% and have lowered my normal mode throttle curve to 38.5%. So next time out I'll give that a try and see how it goes. I'm sure I can arrive at a workable setting one way or another.
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