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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Talon 90 ESC help slow spool up
04-23-2013 02:12 PM  5 years agoPost 1
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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I recently installed the Talon 90 ESC in my Trex-550. I did not program the esc and just used the 'default' settings. Occasionally the helicopter spools up very slowly. It seems as though if I do not spool up right after connecting my battery or if I do not get up to speed quickly the ESC acts this way. I have noticed this once in flight also. It was like I lost power but it was just my esc slowly attempting to catch up. I hope this makes sense. Is the esc on its way out? I hope not because I do not have many flights on it. Is something configured incorrectly?

TIA,
Andy

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04-23-2013 05:42 PM  5 years agoPost 2
Civerad

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Cincinnati, OH, USA

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Mine does it sometimes. It's almost like it takes a second or two for the motor to actually start spooling up, but after that it runs fine. I never ran them at default settings. Did you configure the endpoints?

John D.
Team Align
H.A.W.K.S. - Cincinnati, OH
RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.

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04-23-2013 05:57 PM  5 years agoPost 3
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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Did you configure the endpoints?
No I did not configure the end points. When I connect the battery I pull my throttle trim down to enable the esc and set the trim back to center when finished. I'm glad to see that I'm not going crazy and someone else experiences the same problem. I'm just afraid that it happens when I need the power to get out of a hairy situation.

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04-23-2013 06:32 PM  5 years agoPost 4
Civerad

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Cincinnati, OH, USA

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I suggest you configure the endpoints if you're flying with default values. You might not be hitting the full range of the speed controller while flying which might be the reason why you're having power issues during flight.

You'll get the most out of the ESC if you enable set RPM also.

John D.
Team Align
H.A.W.K.S. - Cincinnati, OH
RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.

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04-23-2013 06:55 PM  5 years agoPost 5
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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You'll get the most out of the ESC if you enable set RPM also.
Ok I will do that. Thank you for your help.

Andy

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04-23-2013 07:20 PM  5 years agoPost 6
dj80550

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Texas

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I did not program the esc and just used the 'default' settings.
Try this out, easiest way to program, mine only took about 5 minutes. Also, download castle link and get your free cable with the Talon from the Castle website. They ship fast and you will have it within 4 days.

Watch at YouTube

AMA# 1078375

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04-23-2013 10:29 PM  5 years agoPost 7
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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Trying to learn here. How does not programming the esc cause a sporatic issue like this? Shouldn't it be consistently doing it?

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04-24-2013 12:48 AM  5 years agoPost 8
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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If you are using the Talon 90 (or any other CC ESC with the default settings in a heli), you are not going to be happy, and you may end up having lots of grief.

The DEFAULT SETTINGS are AIRPLANE SPECIFIC and do NOT play well with helis.

The DEFAULT THROTTLE SETTING in CC ESC's is something called "Auto Calibrate".

This throttle mode REQUIRES you to run the throttle up to FULL for about two seconds EACH time you plug the darn thing in, so that the ESC can figure out where "full" throttle is. This means each time you start up the ESC, if you don't run up to full throttle to teach the ESC where max setting is, you'll never get a reliable ESC throttle setting.

Further, the default modes generally do nasty things like turn on the brake mode and other airplane specific settings.

-----

You need to sit down and properly program your ESC when using it in a heli.

From the Talon 90 user guide:

Among other items, you will want, as a minimum, to set the throttle type to fixed endpoints, THEN go through a one-time Transmitter/ESC calibration procedure. Once you do that, you're free to check out the governor stuff. ALSO -- you will want to set the CURRENT LIMIT setting to INSENSITIVE and sometimes "Disabled" for helicopter use. If you don't do so, you will experience random motor cutouts as momentary normal current spikes in heli operation trigger the ESC built-in overcurrent shutdown feature.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-24-2013 01:11 AM  5 years agoPost 9
tgalo

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USA

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I have one with only two flights on it but defiantly does what your saying. Seems to spool up slowly on initial spool up. Once in flight it seems fine. I did check all settings with the Castle link. interesting

Gravity's a bitch ant it?

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04-24-2013 01:36 AM  5 years agoPost 10
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Post your settings...

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-24-2013 01:51 AM  5 years agoPost 11
tgalo

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USA

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For me, this is how it came. I left it like that

Gravity's a bitch ant it?

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04-24-2013 02:18 AM  5 years agoPost 12
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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I couldn't remember why I didn't go through any setup but then I dug up the manual. The first sentence in the pamphlet that came with the esc states
This controller is configured with settings chosen by Align Corporation for this heli and motor combination. No controller programming is required to operate your heli.
It looks like I was sold a unit that is bundled with the 550. I am using it on a 550 anyways. I'm going to try to download the software and see what I can do I'll try to post my settings.

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04-24-2013 02:55 AM  5 years agoPost 13
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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I have a question on connecting the esc to your computer using the usb connector. Do I need to plug my lipo battery into the esc when the esc is connected to my computer? The reason I ask is that the software does not recognize a connection to the esc but the green light is illuminated on the usb connectors circuit board. I don't want to destroy anything

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04-24-2013 02:59 AM  5 years agoPost 14
Civerad

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Cincinnati, OH, USA

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The ESC doesn't need to be plugged into the lipo.

John D.
Team Align
H.A.W.K.S. - Cincinnati, OH
RIP Roman Pirozek Jr.

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04-24-2013 04:26 AM  5 years agoPost 15
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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The first sentence in the pamphlet that came with the esc states:

This controller is configured with settings chosen by Align Corporation for this heli and motor combination. No controller programming is required to operate your heli.
The devil is always in the details...Makes a difference if you bought it stand alone, or already configured as part of a combo.

Anyhow,

if you haven't done it already, download the CASTLE LINK software from Castle Creations, then install it on your PC. This should install a driver on the PC to work with your Phoenix Link cable.

With the software properly installed, your PC ought to recognize the Phoenix Link USB adapter, with the Castle Link SW started, you should be able to plug the Phoenix Link USB unit into the ESC throttle cable and the two should link up.

The current version of Castle Link is V3.53.13. I just downloaded it to my laptop. Make sure all three wires in the ESC throttle cable are present and inserted into their connector (in case you had to disable the internal BEC with your heli setup). Plug the ESC throttle cable into the Phoenix Link adapter, and select the Talon 90 as the target device in the main page of the Castle Link menus. The two indicators in the bottom left corner of the page ought to both go GREEN, then you should have established communications with the ESC. You DON'T need a battery plugged into the ESC, it will receive its necessary power through the USB port.

-----

Once you get the menu stuff up and running, the THROTTLE tab is where you set the throttle stuff. Make sure it is in HELICOPTER mode, and at least FIXED Endpoints. If you click the blue question mark above the Throttle Type window, you will see a help menu describing the transmitter/ESC calibration sequence. Perform that process.

Next you will see an Initial Spool UP Rate window, and a Head Speed Change Rate window. They are both defaulted to 5. Increase those values to get the desired response for initial spool-up and change rate. You can also turn on the auto-rotation feature here.

All BRAKE features are disabled when you select a helicopter mode throttle.

In the CUTOFF tab, you will want to set the Current Limit to Insensitive, or even disabled.

In the MOTOR tab you may need to increase the setting of the Motor Start Power window to make sure the motor starts up reliably when you first goose up the throttle.

In the OTHER tab, make sure the BEC output is set properly so you don't smoke your electronics. I know you've been there, done that already, and don't want a repeat!

Set the Logging stuff as desired.

Make sure to actually write the setup to the ESC before you exit -- UPDATE button.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-24-2013 11:21 AM  5 years agoPost 16
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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I couldn't remember why I didn't go through any setup but then I dug up the manual. The first sentence in the pamphlet that came with the esc states
This controller is configured with settings chosen by Align Corporation for this heli and motor combination. No controller programming is required to operate your heli.
It looks like I was sold a unit that is bundled with the 550. I am using it on a 550 anyways. I'm going to try to download the software and see what I can do I'll try to post my settin
That explains why some people say you don't have to touch these, just run them. Turns out some are pre programed for helis.

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04-24-2013 12:11 PM  5 years agoPost 17
HeliNutAndy

rrKey Veteran

worcester, MA USA

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I am off to work and didn't have time to look at these yet but here are my settings. Maybe someone notices a problem...

#######################################################
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Wednesday, April 24, 2013
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
#######################################################
Brake Ramp: Immediate (*)
Motor Start Power: High (100) (*)
Current Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff (*)
Current Limiting: Normal (*)
Vehicle Type: Helicopter
Throttle Type: Fixed-Endpoints
Throttle Response: Medium (5) (*)
Governor Gain: Low (15) (*)
Initial Spool-Up Rate: Medium (5) (*)
Head Speed Change Rate: High (8)
Auto Rotate Enabled: True
Governor Mode Type: Simple
Power-On Beep: Enabled (*)
Voltage Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff (*)
Hex55: 85
Motor Timing: Normal (5) (*)
PWM Rate: 12 Khz (*)
Auto-Lipo Volts/Cell: 3.2 Volts/Cell (*)
Cutoff Voltage: Auto Li-Po (*)
Brake Strength: 0%, Disabled (*)
Direction: Forward (*)
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
BEC Voltage: 6.0V (*)
Link Live Enable: Disabled (*)

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04-24-2013 06:47 PM  5 years agoPost 18
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Set the CURRENT LIMIT to INSENSITIVE or DISABLED.

Looks like you have Throttle Fixed Endpoints set, so go ahead and calibrate your TX to the ESC so it knows where full and off are.

If you want a faster spool up, I'd bump up the Initial Spool up rate, probably the throttle response number as well.

----

You have the autorotate stuff enabled. As long as you keep the throttle setting ABOVE a certain point, you will avoid the slow-spool up when you goose the throttle up. If you should go below that set-point, you get the slow spool up behavior again.

So, unless you're NOT running a flat throttle curve of 85% or greater in your idle up modes, you should not have to worry about getting into the slow spool-up region as you fly.

Maybe in Normal mode you will.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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