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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsV-Bar › Problems with mini-vbar heli twitching
04-07-2013 02:11 PM  6 years ago
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HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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Problems with mini-vbar heli twitching
I recently setup a new GAUI NX4 with a mini-vbar. My first flight(4 tanks of fuel) I had no real issues. The issue I had was that when the swash reached the top of the main shaft it was tilting. I fixed this by running the setup again. Last week I took the helicopter out. It was very windy and I had an impossible time controlling the heli and when I landed I hit the tail blades on the ground. I attributed the bad control to wind gusts. I took the heli out yesterday and there was no wind. When I got the heli in the air the tail would twitch or shoot downwards every few seconds. This is a major twitch. I could still fly the helicopter even though it is hard to control and I was lucky to get it on the ground. What would cause this? I cannot fly it again when it's in this state.

TIA,
Andy
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04-07-2013 03:14 PM  6 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Sounds like a serious vibration issue. Is this the yellow Gaui VBAR or the normal ones?Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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04-07-2013 03:24 PM  6 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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It is the yellow one that comes with the combo. There was a defect on some of the units where the sensors were not placed correctly but mine does not have that particular issue. There are vibrations from the motor but I can't see anything out of the ordinary.
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04-07-2013 03:34 PM  6 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Doe that version VBAR have the vibration logger or event log? That will tell you for sure what is happening.Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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04-07-2013 03:42 PM  6 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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Doe that version VBAR have the vibration logger or event log?
Good question. I will gave to figure that out. The only problem is that I have already replaced the tail blades and I am afraid that I am going to crash if I fly the helicopter in its current state. The tail shoots down a few feet on every twitch and it's just luck that I can get the heli on the ground in between twitches.
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04-07-2013 03:48 PM  6 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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I also want to mention that the twitching is less prominent when I enable the governor which gives me a higher head speed. It is very windy today and I lost my window to do any testing this weekend. I don't mind flying in the wind but I'm not going to test in it.
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04-08-2013 05:46 PM  6 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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I have asked Mark to move this post to the proper area due to lack of help.

Does anyone have any ideas what I can do to fix this? I checked Mikados web site and they state as a last resort to cure vibration problems place a metal plate between the vbar and the heli using 3mm tape. I already did that as those components came with my NX4.

I am starting to get real frustrated. I purchased the Vbar because I thought it was one of the better units. It worked ok the first day I tried it(Pirouettes very nicely) and now it flies terrible. My Align 3G unit works much better and I'm thinking I should have purchased one of those for $30 if the Mini-Vbar is so unstable on a nitro helicopter.

TIA,
Andy
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04-08-2013 08:34 PM  6 years ago
BobOD

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New York- USA

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If it is a vibration problem then you really can't assume the 3G would do any better. The best one I've found at handling vibes is the SK540 but I don't have too much experience to rank them all. All gyros are susceptable to vibes though.
But, we don't even know if it is vibes. This is just a guess as sudden uncommanded attitude changes are commonly the result of vibes on a FBL heli...very unfortunately. Yours is a bit different than most though as this often does not return control. You may have an intermittent vibration. Have you looked into the logs and/or vibration analyser?
Going over the heli, are there any loose components. Look for loose or chaffed wires. Any bearings notchy. Servos move smoothly through their range?
A common way to chech is to remove the blades, spin it up and check for vibrations.
Since you said you hit the tail, how hard? Any bent shafts? Is the boom still straight?
Team POP Secret
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04-08-2013 08:40 PM  6 years ago
GetToDaChopper

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I have asked Mark to move this post to the proper area due to lack of help.
isn't the FBL forum the proper area for this thread ?

vbar is one of only two FBL systems that has a vibration analyser, it would prob a good idea to take advanage of it for this.....
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04-08-2013 08:48 PM  6 years ago
BobOD

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vibration analyser, it would prob a good idea to take advanage of it for this
True but I don't imaging Helinutandy is in the mood to get whacked for an upgrade charge right now.

Andy, do it the old school way. Pull the blades, spin it up and feel around for vibrations. Just be careful.
Here's where it would be good to have someone with some experience to check it out for you though. Knowing what vibrations "feel" ok or not is something that needs to be learned. A video of it might help us spot something.
Team POP Secret
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04-08-2013 09:17 PM  6 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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Thx for the help. I am going to pull the blades off this week and take a video of the helicopter while it is running. I realize the blades may be the issue but I do not want to fly the helicopter again to produce a log file. The tail twitches badly. It will whack the ground and it's a guessing game when I get close to the ground. I was luckily able to get it down twice. Hopefully you guys can spot what the issue is. The only problem is I can't get to the helicopter for a few days. Damn responsibilities
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04-09-2013 03:15 AM  6 years ago
GetToDaChopper

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What ?!? you can't use the vibration analyser without a upgrade ?!? that sucks.......    ▲
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04-09-2013 03:53 AM  6 years ago
Scott1115

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Greenwich, CT

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True. The pro software opens up a lot of features including logging. Once upgraded, remove the main blades and disconnect the tail pushrods from the tail slider. Clamp your heli to the workbench and spool it up. Add aileron, elevator, etc... And shut it down. Post log here and we can see what's going on. Sounds like elevator servo is getting bad signal - log will point to the problem.Compass 7HV, Trex 550E
RCRCC
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04-09-2013 01:55 PM  6 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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I contacted Mikado support to see what they would recommend and I received the following:

GAUI is an OEM contractor of Mikado's VBar. All service and support for GAUI devices is their responsibility, I am afraid, since they have a very special firmware and software custom-tailored for their helis.

With the purchase of the Pro software, things change. Then you would have the Mikado firmware and would be entitled to Mikado's support and service.

I thought the Mini Vbar I had that came with the heli was in fact a Vbar. It looks like it may be running different firmware and software. Usually when a company puts their brand on a product that is all they do. I did not realize that changed the unit.

I am going to upgrade to the Pro software since it appears that I have no choice at this point. I have only been flying for a year and I don't think I need all of the advanced features but everyone could use the logging feature.
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04-09-2013 02:27 PM  6 years ago
Scott1115

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Pro software really is important. Do not look at it as a punishment. Now you can really utilize the unit to it's fullest. Set-up is much more advanced and the ability to tune it to your style is infinite. The logging features are also very helpful to track down most issues.Compass 7HV, Trex 550E
RCRCC
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04-13-2013 12:41 PM  6 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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I went to upgrade my software and I found out that the Pro software for the GAUI mini vbar is is almost $90. I don't look at upgrading as a punishment but I am kind of pissed that I am being charged extra. I thought I was getting a Vbar not a vbar that costs more and uses different firmware and software. I'm not sure if I am going to upgrade yet. I am going to take the unit it off and check for tight wiring and a few other things for now. I'm starting to learn with these heli's if you do not research every single component before you buy it there is always some type of issue.
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04-13-2013 02:54 PM  6 years ago
niyot

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Baltimore, Maryland

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check all your wiring to make sure there are no frays in them. especially the servo wires.
if your heli has a belt drive, it might be static buildup. you will have to ground the boom to the motor mount.
one of your servos might be bad.
just some options for you to go over.

I had a similar issue with my mini v on my compass 7hv. I grounded the boom (since it was belt driven), changed the ESC, checked to make sure the motor wires did not have continuity to the motor mount screws. The tail would consistently twitch and send glitches to the error log. Finally I turned off the vbar governor and it flew fine and had been ever since. The only two things I have not swapped out are the vbar and the motor.
Good luck

http://rc.runryder.com/t726264p1/?p=6038433#RR
Hood HeLi : RIP Roman
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04-13-2013 03:32 PM  6 years ago
Twrecks600

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Round Rock, Texas

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Try sending it in for service if nothing else works.Team me
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04-13-2013 07:10 PM  6 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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I just got finished removing the vbar and adding an extra layer of 3m tape. Now I have one layer of tape, the metal plate, 2 pieces of tape, and finally the vbar. Also, some of the servo wires were tight going in to the unit and I loosened them up a bit. I went to the field to try it out but I noticed that my swash was acting erratic. I stopped by a friends house for him to have a look(he is not into helis) and we filmed the helicopter spooling up without the blades. As you can see the swash is all over the place. I have no idea what to do next. I also noticed if I hold down the vbar with my hand the swash does not go crazy but to strap it down that tight would be difficult.

Watch at YouTube

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04-13-2013 07:18 PM  6 years ago
Ravenhyper50

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Canada's Capital

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Hard mount your mini-v!

Use just a single layer of 3M tape no plate, and use a Velcro strap and pull it down as tight as you can. You want pressure from the top pushing down on the center of the unit. This will help your vibration problem.

Also make sure your swash is not tilting or acting funny before each flight, I find sometimes the v-bar needs a re-boot from a bug in start up that happens once in awhile.

+ change out your glow plug on your OS .37...

and balance your clutch bell and fan unit if you have not already done so, then reinstall and align and you should be good to go!!

Cheers,
Raven
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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsV-Bar › Problems with mini-vbar heli twitching
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