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HomeScale✈️AircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion › Question of the Week---- Suggestions Requested
04-03-2013 03:11 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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SSMKN2
Question how do you like flying it with out the flybar and with out stabilization???
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04-03-2013 04:42 PM  6 years ago
Viggen65

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Gothenburgh, Sweden

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about 5 years ago i had the hirobolama and converted it to electric and fbl using the hirobo mrb head,in that time there wasnt the option to choose among
numerous fbl systems as in these days,i was flying with the skookum 360 and it flew great without any issues,in that time im also had in mind to go without a stab system but somehow changed my mind and dont regret it.

cheers
Jack
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04-03-2013 04:50 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Jack I may have mis read your post but did you mean you only flew the model with the skookum 360? Have you ever flown this model without the stabilization. If so what are your thoughts on it.

Thanks Mike
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04-03-2013 05:41 PM  6 years ago
SSMKN2

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Greensboro NC

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Flying without the stab system was both good and bad. Bad that I invested a few hundred dollars in two different systems that when used dint really give me a warm and fuzzy. Just happened I was talking to an old friend I used to,work with and he said he upgraded his Rex 600 to FBL. I was like sweet, which FBL system do you like, and he replied old school. So I,thought about it and was like what the heli, the next day I set up goblin with a T/R gyro and took it out...despite some pitch adjustments it flew really well. Now I don't delve much into 3d, prefer mainly scale and a little sport. However the five flights so far with the goblin have been good...loops and rolls nicely, fast forward flight is fine as well. You have to fly the rotor disc a little more and the cyclic is responsive but it's not scary. Feel way more comfy with it then the beast x manual that suggests taking off quickly, I'm assuming to get out of ground effect. When hovering the heli in a wind free environment, ie the hangar, you can put heli in a hover and take fingers off the sticks. I am almost dissappointed in myself I haven't tried it sooner. I tried in 2009 on a 5 blade MD 500 but it was a bit breezy at the flyng field and I,felt a little overwhelmed. However, like stated before the phasing is fixed in the newer FBL heads vs not fixed in some of the multiblade applications. So once the phasing is set properly, I don't think the flybarless controllers are so important. Like I said though I'm not into 3d so maybe that's where the difference is made. As far as stab systems, I have a few multiblade scalers at home that run the SK360 system which I think is totally fine too. Hope this helps a bit. After all though, it's only a personal preference and opinion.Joel
MD 500D
Bell 206
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04-03-2013 05:50 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Joel I am with you, I love to fly scale and a little sport, loops mainly.
So I guess stabilizations systems are really optional. WOW Thanks for the input
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04-03-2013 06:02 PM  6 years ago
Viggen65

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Gothenburgh, Sweden

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No Mike,only with Skookum and a tailgyro,in your first post i read that i could be problematic due he linkage,it went very mooth with the skookum.

about Some 8 years ago i decided to go without fbl gyro on my vario bk 117, it also flew ok when doing
regular round flying but with the years i noticed that with a fbl gyro the flying got moore comfortable and suited me better,this is of course my personal reflection but if you decid to go with a fbl gyro on the lama it gone work just fine.

cheers
Jack
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04-03-2013 06:21 PM  6 years ago
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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Guys, let's not forget one feature that some of these systems have that are not built into a tail only gyro, or your fingers, for that matter. That is the ability to bail you out of a bad situation with the flick of a switch or just letting go of the stick and add a bit of collective for good measure. The last time I looked, I had better than 6400 tied up in my TOW Defender so the cost of the gyro/GPS is not a majority of the money in there. Also, let's not forget the hundreds of hours of labour you put into your helicopter to get it airborne.

One dumb cyclic move and it is in a basket on its way back to the bench, if it survives the impact. The crashes that have happened to mine have not been something any system could have prevented (poor planning or bad preparation were the causes) but there have been numerous times when the flick of a switch has saved me thousands in repair costs. If there was some way to have it both ways, I would, as I loved setting up my AS350 head in a pure mechanical way, where the links were straight to the swash just as the original. I'm not bashing the premise of flying without stabilization, merely pointing out that there can be benefits running with it that won't be there without it. You can dial back the interaction a lot of these systems have, some to the point it barely would seem like you have a 3 axis system installed but this is from closely looking at how the gyro can be set to operate, not from personal experience. I would love one day to fly my AS350 with a pure mechanical setup just to compare notes but for now, the dummy factor says no to tail only multi-blade flying. Take care.

Don
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04-03-2013 07:15 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Don, thank you for your posts on the subject. To be honest it is with great trepidation that I was thinking to fly my scale heli with out any stabilization. Don ,you made me think twice about this. Reason being if i do crash the Lama replacing it could prove difficult economicaly and the availability of this kit is hard to come by these days. I think you can get them in Japan, but not here in the U.S. Secondly, One of the reasons why I started the post is to see how feaseble flying with out stabilization might be. Like so many of us, economicaly hit hard in the pocket book, affordability of a good stabilization system for me right now is out. If you guys think I should give up temporarely, and fly with the flybar instead please give me your opinions, as stated before I have no experiance with multi blade flying.

Thanks Mike
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04-03-2013 08:09 PM  6 years ago
SSMKN2

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Greensboro NC

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There are a number of good FBL systems for sale all the time,for a fraction of the new cost. Of the stab systems I have, Curtis Youngblood, Skookum, and the beast x, the CGY 750 is the only one I purchased brand new. Whatever route you decide is purely up to you. And as far as putting in an expensive heli, dumb thumbs and Murphy's law will get you regardless of a stab system or notJoel
MD 500D
Bell 206
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04-08-2013 02:10 AM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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A Big Thank you.....
I wanted to express a great big thank you to everyone who posted comments on the 3 blade head question of the week. Thank you for the suggestions as well. I have installed the 3 blade head and phased it. I am running the 550mm Hirobo woodies with it. So far some light vibrations and with some expo and 6 degress of deflection, it flies. I am not as smooth flying it as I am with the 2 blade head. But it is flying with out any stabilization. Thanks to my good friend Chuck for helping me out. His contributions have made it possible to fly. Now I look forward, to putting a stabilization system on ( Beastx ) and flying it hopefully with better results.

Mike
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04-08-2013 04:43 PM  6 years ago
SSMKN2

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Look at the Beast X Manual online before settling on the beast...just my .02 wirth though...Joel
MD 500D
Bell 206
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04-08-2013 05:32 PM  6 years ago
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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Question???
Look at the Beast X Manual online before settling on the beast...just my .02 wirth though...
SSMKN2,

Hi Joel, I was wondering what you meant by this statement.. Did you have a problem with a BX???
I have them on 2 of my 800 size scale heli's and several on smaller heli's and have no problem with them at all on my scale machines...
I like the fact that once they are set, you can dial your heli in on you tx without a computer having to be hooked up to make minor adjustments like trim and other things like expo and dual rates..
I think this one is just like any of the others in that you need to do one or two, to get to know how they program and how to adjust them, and then it is nothing more then the feel the "you" want...
The only thing that I don't like about the BX manual is that, if you start reading it and start hooking things up (like your servos) before actually beginning the set up, you can hurt your servos...so now what I do, is, hook all the wires from the BX to the RX, then put the info in the Set Up menu, items A-D... shut it off and then hook the servos into the system.. then go back into set up and just push the button until you get a solid light and then push the button again until you are on step E and continue from there... it is about as easy as it gets.. and in this situation where you are going to use the computer to set phasing, I would still do it the same way so that you will have all your servos installed and operating prior to hooking into the computer for the final adjustments..
I personally like the BX and it will do a fine job on this machine..
Just my .02 worth too!!!! Good Luck, Stan
AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft
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04-08-2013 07:15 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Stan, Big question, I have a beastx comming in the mail. Used but in new condition. My question is the Lama from Hirobo that I have its Like the old Shuttle. 3 servos in line, the center servo thru 2 links and a 90 degree belcrank, then 2 links go to the swash plate. The right servo with one link goes to another 90 degree belcrank it then has one link connected to the front ball on the swash and controls the Elevator. The center servos thru links connect to both left and right balls on the swash providing aileron control. The left servos controlls the pitch on the tail. My big question is will the beastx work in this set up. I was told that this stabilization system would work great in non ccpm set ups like mine. Gosh I hope it does

Thanks again

Mike
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04-08-2013 09:47 PM  6 years ago
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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BX Will Work..
Hi Mike,

You should have no problem what so ever setting up the BX to handle your "MECHANICAL" mixing (that's what they called it before CCPM came along)

It is on page 12 of my manual listed under:
3.2 Servo Connections and auxiliary channels...
You will choose the mechanical mixing... it also tells you what servo needs to be plugged into the BX so that it will work properly.. the BX doesn't know that you have belcranks on the controls, so they really do not matter...
Channel 1 on the BX will be your elevator servo, the roll(aileron) connects to Ch2 and the pitch servo will plug into Ch 3... then as you go through the set up menus, you will have to choose, under item H (swashplate mixer) as a purple light for mechanical.. then in the next step you will choose the servo directions item I which if left off you just use your radio to switch servo direction, but only after you try the 4 selections that are listed as options preset in the BX...
So, the answer to your question is YES, it will work with your Shuttle mechanics... also, I read that parts are hard to come by, but MRC in NJ still stocks parts or can bring them in for you...so parts are available..
If I can be of further help to you during you set up, just let me know and we can get on the phone and I will talk you through it if you need me to...
Stan
Just remember, DO NOT PLUG in your servos until you have the proper operationg frequency of the servos for the head and tail chosen in the BX... (if you go to the BX web sie under service you will find a list for servos and you can find yours and that is the info you need to input prior to hooking up your servos...
AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft
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04-08-2013 10:14 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Stan again you are the man, Thank so very much for the good news. I am looking forward to the install on the Lama. Will submit a flight video as soon as I can.

Again thank you very much Stan

Mike

PS I just may take you up on that offer to call you. I am sure I will have more questions
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04-09-2013 07:28 PM  6 years ago
SSMKN2

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Greensboro NC

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Only thing i read in manuall i wasnt crazy about was when taking off to more or less get out of ground effect, or away from the ground. Didnt like the feedback it had at initial liftoff, and a bit leery about an initial test flight with 2000 worth of stuff throwing it up in the air. I did like the ease of setup and not having to use a computer as well. I havent had terrible luck with FBL controllers but it hasnt been great. I have had good luck with Skookum products in some of my multiblade sclaers. Overall I wouldnt have even tried going without a FBL on the Goblin if it werent for issues with the controller coupled with my old stick buddy telling me he flew his Rex 600 without. This is just what worked for me. And playing with a Goblin in the stan makes for crappy waits for parts support in the event of a mishap. If i flew crazy 3D I would probably prefer a FBL controller for the goblin, but for now the lack of one is treating me just fine.Joel
MD 500D
Bell 206
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04-09-2013 08:26 PM  6 years ago
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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Now I Understand...
Joel, I hear what you are saying and fully understand... what the manual did not cover very well is that the default setting for the stick deadband setting is rather touchy and you need to pop out of ground effect... I learned this on my first one, but the cure is simply going up one number from the factory setting #2 to #3 for the dead band and you can take off anyway you want without problem.. you can even go higher but I have found that the #3 works just fine for me.. it has settings as high as #5 which would be way too much for me...
I can understand you concerns and you being in the sand certainly does not help matters...
I have never tried a 2 blade FBL without a stabi.. I might just give one a go just to see how it feels.. I have a 700 sitting here waiting for me to do something with it!!!

Stay safe and thank you for doing what you do.... we all appreciate you watching our backs too!!!!!

Stan
AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft
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04-09-2013 09:34 PM  6 years ago
SSMKN2

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Greensboro NC

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Thanks Stan...guess I should have looked a little harder. I did have a little snafu at first with Beast...little tailboom to blade action...but nothing a fiberglass patch couldn't fix. She's flying now, and when I get home ill tinker with it some more. I would def tell you to venture out without just to see what the hypes about. I was pretty impressed with the no stab flying and aggravated all at the same time...Joel
MD 500D
Bell 206
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04-09-2013 10:31 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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YAY
Should have my Microbeast in the mail tommorow hopefully. I have glanced over the manual and it looks straight foward. I hope it is as easy as they say. I must admit it looks like the Lama with the 3 blade head will be flying much smoother with the help of fbl system. Will Post pictures soon!

Mike
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HomeScale✈️AircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion › Question of the Week---- Suggestions Requested
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