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HomeScale✈️AircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion › Question of the Week---- Suggestions Requested
04-02-2013 03:47 PM  6 years ago
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fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Question of the Week---- Suggestions Requested
Ok guys, I have been flying my scale Lama from Hirobo that has been converted to electric power, WITH the 2 blade head and flybar. Last night I re-installed the 3 blade head from Hirobo. Since all the inputs from the servos to the main head go thru linkages, a stabilization system is problamatic. I have decided to fly it without ANY stabilization. I heard in the old days it was done all the time. Can anyone out there who has experiances flying without all those electronic gizmos please post reply one here letting me know your thoughts and expierances, possible set ups on the swash/head you had.

Thanks
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04-02-2013 03:59 PM  6 years ago
wrongler

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Brewerton, New York

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It has been done by a few members on here. I tried it and didn't like it. Just to touchy for me. Other guys have had great success. I'm sure they will chime in.
I used the same set up that was on the heli when the flybar was installed. Good Luck!
Bill Whittaker
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04-02-2013 04:08 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Wrongler, thanks man. I think you had too much input. I heard 6 degress max on swash plate defection..... but I dont know, I have no experiances with scale heads........ thanks

Mike
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04-02-2013 05:11 PM  6 years ago
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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Mike:

There is a thread on the second page about running a multi-blade head with no stabilization system. This video shows two ways of setting the links to do the same job but in your case, the first method may not work quite the same. Angling links forward will work with your setup to phase the blades correctly. I would look for a 3 axis gyro that is more friendly to scale setups rather than 3D. Both your choices are not friendly to scale helicopters and something like the HeliCommand Rigid and HC3sX or Skookum 720 are far better suited to scale systems. Hope this helps.

Don

Watch at YouTube

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04-02-2013 05:32 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Don,
Thank you very much, one of my buddies recomends no more than 6 degress of cyclic movement. I was thinking reducing that further to 5 or even 4 untill I master flying it. With the flybar I have no issues and can fly all day long, but with the 3 blade head, this is all new to me
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04-02-2013 07:04 PM  6 years ago
cap231ex

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Muncie , Indiana , USA

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You need to get ahold of CopterDoc (Emile) he is the king of nobar flying , here is a link to his homepage on here.

http://rc.runryder.com/rr/member.ht...nfo&userid=2706

I would PM him and he can help with what you need to know , he is a very good guy.
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04-02-2013 07:08 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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THANKS 231EX
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04-02-2013 08:00 PM  6 years ago
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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Agreed
Copter Doctor has flown many machines with nobar, and has done quite nicely with them..
I have flown your machine on nitro with the 3 blade head and it took just a few minor adjustments and about a tank of fuel before I was able to do figure 8's and actual straight line fly bys...
First thing to do is to make sure your phasing is dead on... by this I mean, adjust the swash until there is absolutely no movement on the blade that you have placed over the tail boom when you input an elevator command.. so NO MOVEMENT.. I like to put my hand on that grip lightly while I move the elevator stick on the transmitter.. if you put about 40% expo on your elevator (just for this set up, then take it back out!!) it will help keep you from adding any aileron which would make the blade move.. so now you have the phasing set properly...
Next, is set up your machine to be nose heavy.. lift the heli by the main shaft, and watch the landing gear. What you want is as the rear of the landing gear comes up to about 1" prior to the front of the gear coming up.. this will help you to do away with most of the nose up that the head would want to throw at you.. and that is what makes it tougher to fly.. the multi blade heads want to "stop" forward flight and will hover beautifully.. so you will need to get used to feeding just a little forward to keep the machine moving...and as you turn into the wind be ready for the nose to try and lift, but once you are used to this, you will be compensating automatically without thinking about it..
I have found that the elevator is the only channel that causes any problems and have never used anything different then the stock set up for aileron..
I start with no expo on the elevator, but you can add it to any of the other channels to make it work for you.. I actually use negative expo on the elevator (JR this makes it faster around center) just so that it was easier to stay ahead of the head!!!!! But try it with your normal set up first and then work these adjustments as you begin to get the "feel" for the way it flies..
As far as the amount of travel you have on the cyclics, 6 degrees sounds about right...if I am not mistaken, this is about what you get on the shuttle mechanics in stock form and it should work well for you..
One other thing... if you do choose to add a stabi system later on, the stand along BeastX is fully capable of working on your heli.. the bell cranks on the push rods do nothing to your set up.. and you can also adjust the phasing with the optional USB cord on the stand alone unit.. the 7200BX receiver does not have phasing as of yet..
Good luck, and I hope this makes sense to you, and if I can be of further help feel free to contact me...
Now we will see if Copter Doctor agrees with my setup!!!!
It does work and the machine will fly just fine for you...
Stan

Oh and one other thing that I checked this morning, is what c/f blades are available now and I found that Edge makes a FBL 473mm blade that should also help you out a lot with the nobar!!!! Good Luck and let us know how it goes for you...
AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft
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04-02-2013 08:31 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Stan, you are da man, thank you very much. I will do exactly as you posted. It makes perfect sense to me. Thank you, I am now more positive about this venture than ever before

Mike
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04-02-2013 10:52 PM  6 years ago
bohelinut

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Hartselle,AL

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multi blades
I allways fly with out stabilazation, I have a Hughes 500 5 blade and flown in the past a 4 blade,as allways with each different person you get different opinions here is my 2 cents, 1)travel is reduced to about 60%- maybe 5 degrees deflection 2) make sure your model is obvious nose heavy, this is important...how much? If I pick my Hughes up from the main shaft the rear skids rise about 10mm before I lift the nose, where I think a stab system helps is if you fly in a breeze or gusty wind, I wouldnt fly mine on a windy day, the main point I want you to get is, the multi- flies well, given that the head and blades are good quality, and well balanced, keep the head speed up, its just that we expect it to "feel" like a flybared head, you have to get aquainted to this new feel and response, Ive noticed when ever I fly I tend to lead the fore/aft cyclic with what I want to do for example, when I transition I use aft cyclic to slow it down and then put a little forward cyclic to reduce the transition, keeping the nose down, multis tend to ballon, this forward CG will helps this, make all your inputs smooth(so important) after a few flights youll get comfortable with it. I hope this helps happy flying Bo Hendrix
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04-02-2013 11:12 PM  6 years ago
payne1967

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uk

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i found on the ****tle and sceadu 2 blade head nobar they fly very well at 4 deg cyclic
the 3 blade head i have on a shuttle needs to have the cyclic reduced to what i've used on the 2 blade heads as i've flown it with 8 deg and it is sensitive but not unflyable

the 2 blade fbl hpm sceadu after a final set up nobar (i set the trims to zero mechanicaly with flight testing) is using a skookum sk360 2 axis gyro with a futaba 401 on the tail and the sk360 works very well on the head

i can see no reason that the shuttle mechanics will be any different to the sceadu with a 2 or 3 axis gyro

so
i'd reduce the cyclic range to 4 deg aileron and elevator
add expo to your taste (i don't use any)
test fly and then adjust the cyclic range to suit your flying

and when i get the 3 blade head set up how i like it it will be going onto my lama
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04-02-2013 11:48 PM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Thank you
Guys, thanks a bunch for all your input of your experiences with multi blade helicopters. I need all the input I can get. As stated before I can fly it with the 2 blade/flybar al day long with no issues even in the wind. But I guess this might be a totally different animal
Thanks

Mike
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04-03-2013 01:47 AM  6 years ago
Joel Rosenzweig

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Marlborough, MA - USA

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Mike,

Yes, unstabilized, the multi head is a very different animal. The flybarless systems normalize that, and make the head feel the same as any flybarred head you have flown, if you take the time to set it up. That is why flybarless systems are so popular for multibladed helps. They work.

If you want to get used to the idiosyncrasies of the multi head, you can do that. If you just want to fly, then consider a flybarless system.

Joel
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04-03-2013 02:40 AM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Thanks Joel. I am hoping with a little expo and limiting the travel of the cyclic just maybe it will be doable. I know it will not be exactly the same. I just hope its manageable and later enjoyable.
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04-03-2013 03:16 AM  6 years ago
Joel Rosenzweig

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Marlborough, MA - USA

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Certainly, and I tell everyone this, it is worth trying to fly the head unstabilized. If you like it, you like it. And if you don't, then you will have tremendous gratitude for the magic that is bestowed upon us when using a FBL stabilization system.

Joel
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04-03-2013 03:23 AM  6 years ago
AWittleWabbit

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O.C., CA

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tremendous gratitude for the magic that is bestowed upon us when using a FBL stabilization system.
Isn't that the truth!

To the op,

You may find more if you search "nobar" ™

™helicuzz
Heli-itis sufferer.
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04-03-2013 03:28 AM  6 years ago
FloridaHeli

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jacksonville, florida

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fireblade48

I've flown the Hirobo Lama with the OEM 3 blade head and blades with and without a MicroBeast. The guys above have stated setup and flight just like it is. Mine was not set up nose heavy and did balloon up when turning into the wind and tended to loose altitude when turned down wind. I did not like it.

The MicroBeast turned all that around. With the Beast it flew like it still had the flybar on it; VERY smooth and no tendency to balloon or descend.

I do agree with Joel. He hit the proverbial nail on the head.

Have fun and enjoy that machine.
This hobby is WAY too expensive!!
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04-03-2013 03:39 AM  6 years ago
fireblade48

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Silsbee, TX.

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Thanks Tom. Hey do you remember your throws on cyclic? I plan on limiting travel to 5 degrees. Are you still flying the stock wood blades from the MRB kit.
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04-03-2013 12:03 PM  6 years ago
SSMKN2

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Greensboro NC

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Dont know about a 3 blade head, however I just went through the same headaches with a SAB Goblin and a few FBL contollers. Bottom line is I am now flying it with no stabilaization system, other than a tail gyro for the Tail rotor. The biggest concern you will have with the 3 blade head is setting the pahsing of the blades to the swashplate. Easiset way to accomplish this is to put a blade perpendicular to the helicopter off the left hand side when looking top down. The PC link for that blade needs to go to the front of the Swashplate, then the phasing is set. The newer two blade FBL heads and swashplate are already set up and the phasing cant be adjusted. After getting the phasing set you should be good mechanically. Next step is to adjust the expo and travel in your radio to achieve the feel you want on the cyclic. I set up my JR for the Goblin at about 75% Expo, to make the cyclic a little less touchy. Other than that the travel is just to achieve the desired blade pitch you want.Joel
MD 500D
Bell 206
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04-03-2013 12:13 PM  6 years ago
FloridaHeli

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jacksonville, florida

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Mike,

Not sure of the cyclic throws. I THINK I put 9 deg up and 6 down.

Yes, still using the stock blades and head I bought from Chuck.

No oily nitro residue left after flights. I can leave it on the shelf for months and pick it up with a charged battery and go fly after a little lube and pre-flight. I LOVE it. Chuck did an outstanding job modifying it to electric with the nitro clutch.

Have fun.
This hobby is WAY too expensive!!
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HomeScale✈️AircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion › Question of the Week---- Suggestions Requested
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