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04-01-2013 03:27 PM  6 years ago
Tyler Benson

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Louisiana usa

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Stang,

I've shut down a castle 120 on the new scorpion 4035 500kv. Also I've shut down a kontroniks 120hv and YGE 120hv with the 4525. 120 amps is not enough for the 4525.
Team Ready Heli
Team Gaui USA/ Empirerc.com
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04-01-2013 03:31 PM  6 years ago
BladeStrikes

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Shelby TWP,Mi

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+1 bkervaski ..

When you run something to the point that it shuts down due to running super hot,the damage is started as heat it a major killer with electronics..When you keep pressing your luck knowing its running super hot and keeps shuting down,this is exactly what happens..
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04-01-2013 03:32 PM  6 years ago
stang281472

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Commack, NY

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There have been multiple recalls. Which to me says it wasnt as simple as a vendor switching part.

I am not taking away from castle as yes they do replace esc even if could have been user error. However I respectfully disagree that this case was user error. Castles run much hotter than other esc's in same size. My kontronik Helijive 120 runs 5 degrees over ambient with same motor as OP. 2200 headspeed 14.5 pitch hard 3D hundreds of flights no issue.

Again I hope they figure it out as I do like the product but not willing to risk $3000 to a potentail fireball.

If yours failed and burned up your machine tomorrow when it flew great for last 50 flights and you had correct settings and soldering was fine would you still be so quick to defend them?

To me failure mode should not be a fire 90% of the time. If it just quit working like most other esc's I would have no problem flying them.
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04-01-2013 03:35 PM  6 years ago
stang281472

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Commack, NY

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Tyler
I have let pros fly my machine and it has never shut down. Not sure why yours did. I do know on YGE you need to run lower LVC as it seems sensitive to voltage drops under load.
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04-01-2013 03:39 PM  6 years ago
bkervaski

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Birmingham, AL, USA

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We're getting off topic now but if you take a setup with a 4525 and a 120 amp rated ESC with 14.5 degrees of pitch and you put it in the hands of someone with good collective management you will much lower temps than say someone like me who just hammers on their heli with little regard for collective management most of the time.

Proper setup takes into account not only what the electronics are rated for but the mechanical setup (pitch, for example) and flying style.

By the way, the Kontronik is known to handle 200 amps with the heat sink. The Castle 120 is not rated to handle 200 amps which is why there is a 160.
Team Synergy Factory Specialist / Scorpion / Thunder Power / Byron's Fuels
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04-01-2013 04:02 PM  6 years ago
stang281472

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Commack, NY

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I agree with you. I have read that jive 120 can handle 200 cont with heatsink on YY wind motors (mine is 4525 ultimate). I also agree on the collective management scenario. I am no pro but I do consider myself to have very good collective management.

But will say that if esc is overloaded it should just shut down not go on fire. I am hoping the new Edge series Castle is putting out will have better reputation. I dont like spending $550 on an esc and would gladly go back to castle if they are proven relaible.

Something I have noticed as I do have a CC 160 red dot (so far so good but am nervous about it not going to lie) in one of my machines running a 4530-540LE. When running the internal gov temps were around 140-145. I switched to running vbar gov with newest firmware and temps dropped to around 100 degrees. Thats 40 degree difference. Anyone else noticed similar?
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04-01-2013 04:16 PM  6 years ago
bkervaski

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Birmingham, AL, USA

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I run the vbar gov as well, with the 160 I haven't felt the need to pull out the temp gun, seems to always come down 10-20 degrees above ambient.

I didn't correlate it to switching to the VBar governor since I also switched motors at the same time on both my E7s but that makes perfect sense, the VBar gov is preemptive while the Castle gov is reactive.

If you have a VBar even Castle recommends using its governor over the Castle governor, the sensor is only $2.50, best money I ever spent on my heli. While the Castle governor is good, the VBar governor is immediately noticeably better due to its preemptive nature.

The next version of the Castle ESCs will have an integrated phase sensor.
Team Synergy Factory Specialist / Scorpion / Thunder Power / Byron's Fuels
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04-01-2013 04:28 PM  6 years ago
stang281472

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Commack, NY

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Vbar gov is amazing no question. I switched on same exact setup I had been running and 40 degree drop in temp and night and day performance. Got me thinking. Wonder if anyone has had failures running Castle with vbar gov. Maybe because it works more efficiently it wont stress esc and possibly prevent failure?

So anyone experienced a failure on Castle running vbar gov?
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04-01-2013 05:00 PM  6 years ago
BladeStrikes

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Shelby TWP,Mi

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stang281472
To me failure mode should not be a fire 90% of the time. If it just quit working like most other esc's I would have no problem flying them.
Did you read what was posted?The ESC shut down a few times like its made to do..
honda411
I finally got the esc to where it wouldnt overheat, and flew awesome like it used to. The esc could have crapped out because it hit thermal shutdown a few times before but then again i dont know. The fan was not needed after adjustments, but kept on anyway.
westwindpilot
Mr Dan, I fly with Honda and the esc used to get hot. His settings where way out of whack.
^^ The ESC did exactly what it should do which is shut down...After shutting down a bunch of times like Honda said it did,its going to let go one way or another..When it shuts down thats letting you know something isn't right so when you continue to fly it knowing something isn't right as it keeps shutting down,its going to fry exactly like it did..

Anyways,
Very sorry to see this Honda and hope shes back in the air soon..Good luck man..
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04-01-2013 05:37 PM  6 years ago
stang281472

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Commack, NY

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Bladestrike
Did you read what i posted? I didnt say anything about shutting down. I said when ESC failed it should just quit working like most other esc's, not go on fire. I had a jive fail once and it just stopped working. It didnt go on fire.

As I said ealrier if the failure mode wasnt 90% of the time a fire with castle we would not be having this conversation. I would be ok with it failing like jive did. Anything can fail. With fires there is risk to other componenets that WILL NOT be replaced when esc burns and yes people have lost alot more than the esc to the fire and only get new esc.
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04-01-2013 05:47 PM  6 years ago
stang281472

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Commack, NY

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What esc is in that Logo? Doesnt look like a Kontronik or YGE. And yes any esc can go on fire but in percentage of actual failures I am willing to bet 90% stop working on other brands vs 90% ending in fire on castle.

You are missing the point. If OP posted his castle just stopped working doubt anyone would have anything negative to say. Its the fact that EVERY castle failure post is a fire thats the problem.
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04-01-2013 05:57 PM  6 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I am in no way a Castle fan but people have to realize the thermal shutdown is there for a reason. If you just put a fan on it to cool it, you are allowing the ESC to run past it's limits and it will fry it eventually.
You definitely need a larger ESC or a less hot motor.....Ron
Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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04-01-2013 06:14 PM  6 years ago
BladeStrikes

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Shelby TWP,Mi

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stang281472,
Yes I did read what you said but seems you don't understand what happens when you keep running a ESC that keeps shutting down.
Read what Ron said...
When you run a ESC thats too small,wrong settings and keeps shutting down,expect smoke or fire and thats with ANY ESC..

I 100% agree with Ron--->If the ESC is running so hot that you need a fan to cool it,its too small..Electronics will last a LONG time running cool vs hot and when you over heat electronics so many times,its going to let out the magic smoke or catch fire..
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04-01-2013 06:19 PM  6 years ago
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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I understand Stang and Lon both but they don't seem to be catching each others meaning.lol...

I think Stang understands that the ESC had shut down from heat a few times.

What he is talking about is the ESCs FINAL FAILURE.

Lots of ESCs will fail and never work again but they don't catch fire when they fail...Not always.

BUT when a CC ESC fails,it burns...pretty much every time.

He's not talking about an incorporated safety feature...ie thermal shut down.

He's talking about complete and total failure.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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04-01-2013 06:32 PM  6 years ago
stang281472

rrApprentice

Commack, NY

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Which model kontronik was in logo? Havent seen any that look like that. OP wasnt currently running with shutdowns and it went on fire. Arguably we can say that damage was done back when he was. The ones I have seen fail were not having any heat related issues and were not being overdrawn and still went on fire out of nowhere after many flights of being fine. Guys I fly with check the logs on regular basis and clear them after viewing so next time they check will be flights from that day. Ripple voltage peaks at 1.3 volts, peak amps well within esc capability, and esc temps in good range and then fire.

Have you seen posts where people opened up brand new castles and found loose solder rolling around inside? Or not even close to enough heat transfer compound on heatsink? Right there you are getting failure. Have seen one 120hv ice 2 in person on very first spool up with a 4035-500 burst into flames half way through spool up. All settings were correct as I watched him set it up and soldering was done by a guy that solders for a living.
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04-01-2013 06:33 PM  6 years ago
stang281472

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Commack, NY

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McKrackin
Thats exactly my point. Thank you.
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04-01-2013 06:35 PM  6 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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The best engineering makes the controller see an error in set up such as more motor than the controller should be expected to support and will thus shut the controller down every time before a fire a occurs. Fire is never an acceptable failure mode. A little smoke, OK, but not this kind of fire. Some companies are better at this kind of engineering than others.......

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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04-01-2013 07:16 PM  6 years ago
rocket_33

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Mount Pleasant, Michigan USA

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If it got hot, it took life away from the ESC. Electronic components don't like getting hot. Each time it got hot, more life was taken from it. Even wires are the same, you get them hot once and you have shortened their life span.

What did the data logs look like? How was the ripple voltage?
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04-01-2013 07:36 PM  6 years ago
stang281472

rrApprentice

Commack, NY

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From what I have seen castles routinely run at much higher temps then other esc's of same size. Example as mentioned my Kontronik runs about 5 degrees over ambient temp where castle 120 with same motor will run 50-60 degrees or more over ambient. On a hot summer day that is not good.

That's also why I found it interesting that on my 160 CC I noticed temp drop of 40+ degrees by switching to vbar gov over internal. 40 degrees is substantial difference. Could mean difference between failure and long life.
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04-01-2013 07:45 PM  6 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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That is because the ESC does not have to play catch up because the VBAR gov is proactive Always ahead of the curve is going to be easier on the ESC.Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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