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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Rogue signal causing 2.4ghz aircraft to crash
02-02-2013 01:34 PM  5 years agoPost 21
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Any where near an airport???

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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02-02-2013 02:22 PM  5 years agoPost 22
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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he only ones i know are from Futaba so far.

you do not hear any issues from those.
that's because they make up a very small market share re Tx.

I'd say for every one futaba you probably have 5 to 7 spektrum or JR systems.
The unsecured protocol is the problem
I'm not sure but I believe DSMX is what fixes this.

basic maintenance, poor wire routing and failure to read manuals is what causes this situation

JR one east west and one north south is the best, on opposite sides and opposite ends
do not co-mingle servo wires with satellite wires, induces noise
CHECK YOUR WIRES...ALL OF THEM, can't tell you how many times I've seen unnecessary crashes due to lack of proper maintenance and good pre-flight - or poor build skill and or understanding, there is no brand specific cure for stupid

most people don't want to accept responsibility for their part in anything much easier to blame the manufacturer -- remember it takes two hands to clap

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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02-02-2013 02:46 PM  5 years agoPost 23
FireNWater

rrApprentice

Collierville, TN

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.
Any disgruntled members?
.
Which way was the wind blowing when they crashed?
.

Buy Cheap, Buy Twice . . .

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02-02-2013 03:08 PM  5 years agoPost 24
Cra-Z-1

rrApprentice

Washington,UT-USA

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I'm going to go ahead and speak from experience here,but let me ask first; What Tx are you using? Do you know what Tx any of the other pilots are using?

Back a couple of years ago, when I first bought my DX8, I was having the exact same issues, and I remembered thinking the same thing your thinking right now. Well, in the end I did find out the cause and it was not rouge waves, at least in my case.

I would be flying along, and all of a sudden the heli would drop out of the air. It became such an occurance, that I started up a thread on this forum, and it caught John Adams attention. I must have had this happen at least a dozen times, crashing one scale and my other 450's. It was super frustrating.

I dont know if this would apply to you, but here is the deal with what caused my issues.

Back when the DX8 was first released, there was a compatibility issue with it and the 6XXX series of receivers. Nobody knew it at the time but it actually took well over a year for Spektrum to discover the issue. They had ended up sending me a completely new DX8 in the process; all of which exhibited the same issue. They have long since fixed the problem, but by chance if you have a DX8 and have not had it updated and had it for awhile, then it is possible it needs to be sent in for an upgrade. In this case you cant download firmware; you have to send it in. I'm pretty sure there is some hardware they have replaced. There is an area on Spektrum's site that addresses this issue on the DX8. This may or may not apply to you, but I figured that I'd mention it, in case it does.

Ban the Ban.

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02-02-2013 03:42 PM  5 years agoPost 25
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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I was using a JR 9503 and I think the P-51 was using a DX7. One of them might have been a DX6I. When I was flying my 450, I had a satelite receiver and was flying level and away from me when it happened.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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02-02-2013 03:48 PM  5 years agoPost 26
RCHSF

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NC

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I say Ley Lines. And I'm not talking power lines.

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02-02-2013 05:28 PM  5 years agoPost 27
JasonJ

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North Idaho

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We have a "Bermuda Triangle" at our field but we know intellectually that it is a setup or control situation with the aircraft involved and the location just so happens to coincide with where people try spiffy manuevers. We have looked at every crashed aircraft, which tend to be airplanes but a few were helicopters and it was poor power supply, sloppy rushed builds, bad tuning, that sort of thing. Also, and no ones wants to admit or discuss this but sometimes you just dumbthumb it in and crash. We have had days where almost everyone crashed.

I don't know how many times I have watched a crash and the flyer immediately yells "lockout". You know what, I have been flying DSM2 since 07 and the only lockout I have had was the lockout between my brain and my hands and the only brownout I ever had was a crappy 4.8 volt nicad battery in a junky Super Stik. That one was awesome because it died in a shallow turn and the thing just went in gentle circles to the ground and just bend a landing gear. It took so long to crash I could have gone to the store bought a six pack. I put in a lipo/regulator and it never had an issue again. I have seen Futaba 2.4 systems go in as well so lets not go down that road.

For the OP, that crash area is a pretty common crash zone for aircraft. Going to idle for landing and the engine quits, too low a speed for the requested turn causing a stall, orientation loss, that is all possibilities that should not be ignored. This really is an Occams Razor situation. Which is more likely, random freak magnetic waves caused by aliens or user error in setup or control?

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02-02-2013 05:48 PM  5 years agoPost 28
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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ooh...my vote is for the aliens

if we can meet them maybe they can hybrid the JR and Futaba, we could call it Jutabar, or Futaj, that way when they malfunction right before our aircraft go in they'll flip us the bird as well

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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02-02-2013 07:06 PM  5 years agoPost 29
RogerRabbit62

rrVeteran

Thuerigen germany

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Futaba has a small number of TX compared to the competitors?

This must be the reason why they are world market leader....

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02-02-2013 09:25 PM  5 years agoPost 30
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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Futaba has a small number of TX compared to the competitors?
This must be the reason why they are world market leader....
Please read the first post and not make any further comments of this nature. This is not to be a Futaba/Spektrum debate. Thank you

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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02-02-2013 09:34 PM  5 years agoPost 31
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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We have a "Bermuda Triangle" at our field but we know intellectually that it is a setup or control situation with the aircraft involved and the location just so happens to coincide with where people try spiffy manuevers.
I can't say for the others, but I know my equipment was/is in top shape.
My 450 was going fine and then decided to do a left roll. My T-34 uses a Castle 10a BEC and locked out in flight. Luckily for that one, I was able to regain control. I probably wouldn't have thought about it much, but watching three airplanes spiral out of control in the same location and in the same day seems like a bit more than a coincidence. Both of mine happened the same day as well.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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02-02-2013 09:59 PM  5 years agoPost 32
RogerRabbit62

rrVeteran

Thuerigen germany

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All of them were 2.4 ghz and I believe all were Spektrum.
I just wanted to emphasize, that the RX plus it´s voltage stability could be more related to the problem than any radio frequency disturbance.

Let´s face it.

It is a very simple logic to go for:

- There is something on the frequency (supposing it is legal) and is disturbing the RXs.
The only thing you would be able to do is to relocate to another field or exchange to a RX/TX system less sensitive to disturbance.

- There is nothing on the frequency and nothing is disturbing the RXs.
Then you have to look into reliability of the used RX/TX and the surrounding parameters like power supply, servos, AWG sizes, connectors, eg.

My hints where not supposed to do any Spectrum/JR bashing, just to make you sensitive that some or their sattelites are not so immune to voltage drops and short spikes.
There is a lot to read about that and solutions in several forums since long.
People have successful partly overcome the problems with capacitors and little higher voltages.

But without exact knowledge of the equippment and the used power supply technologie in the birds which are down we all look into the glass bulb with the fogs of avalon in it.

We have a GSM and Television repeater station around 200 meters from our field. They have direction focused antennas with high gain.
On some RX´s this was a problem - but since the 2.4gig you even can fly there.

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02-02-2013 10:36 PM  5 years agoPost 33
pH7

rrKey Veteran

Sterling Heights, MI - USA

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When I had my two incidents, they were orange DSM2 receivers using satelite receivers.
Empahsis mine. In other words, a cheap imitation of a Spektrum receiver failed and we are looking for Bermuda Triangle explanations?

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02-02-2013 11:12 PM  5 years agoPost 34
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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In other words, a cheap imitation of a Spektrum receiver failed and we are looking for Bermuda Triangle explanations?
Please read the whole thing. Only my two at a previous time was the orange receivers. This day, no orange receivers. Besides other than that one day and location, I have never had an orange receiver fail on me. I also do not make it a practice to use them on everything I have. Typically only a few of cheaper setups have them.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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02-03-2013 12:21 AM  5 years agoPost 35
icanfly

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ontario

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go walk the area with a metal detector, what are the chances you find the remains of a meteorite? slim but maybe.

For awhile I thought my heli was adversely affected by something inside a neighbors home. At a certain location in my yard my heli would act up. I took it further back and no problem. They have a smart meter, wireless internet, a security cam with night motion sensors, all very close to where I was having a prob.

You could also walk around a spooled up heli, without blades, around the area of concern to see if anything happens. Use a tx battery when it is not fully charged up, have a friend hold it at the flight line while you go with the spooled up heli to the area where the other craft went down, see if it cuts out.

Process of elimination, not brand specific, not dsm/2/x satellite with/without specific, not improper wiring/rigging, not static, not 2.4 towers, not a seismic anomaly, dumb thumb, sight or lack of, tx brand, etc.

I dig these types of mysteries. Crack the case, win a prize, lol.

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02-03-2013 12:55 AM  5 years agoPost 36
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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Sol,

Perhaps the issue could be power stability although it makes no sence if you were straight and level when the servos are not taxing the BEC.

What is your 450 setup specificaly? ESC-BEC servos, FBL unit etc...
but watching three airplanes spiral out of control in the same location and in the same day seems like a bit more than a coincidence. Both of mine happened the same day as well.
Something else to try: take a model with the same "suspect" RX being walked by a friend to that spot while you stand in the pilot area, and do a blind spot check, rotating the model in diferent attitudes to see if you get any indications of signal loss.
worth trying if you have not done it yet.

S

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02-03-2013 01:58 AM  5 years agoPost 37
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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I think 3 occurances in one morning and 2 the other day is pretty good justification to look for external sources. Of course you never know, it's always a good idea to check that setups are good but that's pretty coincidental...and very very unusual.

Team POP Secret

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02-03-2013 04:53 AM  5 years agoPost 38
helixangle

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Mamaroneck, NY - USA

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Not true bob...

We need to make further investigations, I digress

The age of the other two pilots must certainly be known as in my travels the older the pilot mysteriously the more duct tape seems to appear on said aircraft, this cannot be factored out. On any given weekend at active co-Ed fields the segregated heli guys hear an all too firmiliar sound...

Zzzzzzzzzaaaaaaaaa bum, the unmistakeable sound of the plane lifting off gaining on average five feet of altitude only to quickly become a dirt homing pidgin.

Shoot this can go on all day, four or five times or more! Some even cartwheel down the runway as if trying to prove their self destructive prowess.

Certainly some external forces at work here.

Again I emplore all to READ AND UNDERSTAND Their equipment. Before the hobby if you asked me what a servo was I probably would have responded a waiter with a Jack Lord haircut. Been doing this going on 5 years yet I don't seem to have some of the types of problems I read about here...

Be sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people

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02-03-2013 05:09 AM  5 years agoPost 39
BobOD

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New York- USA

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a waiter with a Jack Lord haircut.
LOL. You're nuts.

And yes, I see you're point. I missed that there were planks involved.

Team POP Secret

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02-03-2013 06:23 PM  5 years agoPost 40
flycatch

rrApprentice

Barstow, California

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Am I wrong but is there ;good, better and best 2.4kz radio equipement. All FM equipement had this as a selling point. Example would be PCM versus PPM.

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