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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Rogue signal causing 2.4ghz aircraft to crash
02-01-2013 11:42 PM  5 years agoPost 1
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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Here is the deal, there is a field here that seems to have a Bermuda Triangle here. Multiple airplanes have been lost and in fact, I watched 3 go down in the same area this morning. All of them were 2.4 ghz and I believe all were Spektrum. I don't want this to turn into a debate. The purpose of this thread is to try and figure out what the heck is going on and looking for possible answers. I lost one and almost lost another on the same day a week ago.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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02-01-2013 11:58 PM  5 years agoPost 2
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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It might help if you tell us where this is. Coordinates?

- John

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02-02-2013 12:11 AM  5 years agoPost 3
icanfly

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ontario

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interesting, aren't we supposed to be experiencing more meteoric activity this year more than many before.

Is the field between cell transmission towers? You never know where they are putting those nowdays.

Are guys not prepping for flight with the typical routine?

Did the birds, heli/plank that cut out have dsm2 or dsmx? Satellite or single rx?

Bermuda trangle? Might be attributable to seismic activity. When the earth below presses together before cracking, shifting or whatever it does miles deep it can expel magnetic forces beyond our understanding. If you bring a field compass and watch the needle, see if it jogs around or dials in quickly.

Let us know what you discover.

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02-02-2013 12:22 AM  5 years agoPost 4
eddiscus

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Dumont, NJ-USA

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Did this field always have this problem?

There are some high voltage power lines what looks to be 3 blocks away. Should not be an issue unless the load has changed and is creating a harmonic. But you should be far enough away.

Maybe a buisness put a point to point microwave transmitter/receiver that crosses through your airspace?

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02-02-2013 12:31 AM  5 years agoPost 5
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Take a spectrum analyzer out there and ride around and see what's going on.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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02-02-2013 12:33 AM  5 years agoPost 6
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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33degree 28'26.60" N 112 degree 16'07.78" W

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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02-02-2013 12:41 AM  5 years agoPost 7
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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From what I have been told, it was happening for a while some time ago and was told that it hadn't been an issue for a while. Now it seems to be coming back. I do know that the P-51 nitro was using a AR600 and I believe it was DSMX. When I had my two incidents, they were orange DSM2 receivers using satelite receivers. The other two, I can't say for sure what they were using. I was flying today with DSM2 on my cessna and AR400 DSMX on my zagi with no issues today. I also flew my 450 Pro with the AR7200BX with no satelite receiver.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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02-02-2013 12:43 AM  5 years agoPost 8
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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Take a spectrum analyzer out there and ride around and see what's going on.
To read 2.4 ghz, any idea what they cost? I just looked and don't feel the need to spend a couple thousand.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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02-02-2013 12:50 AM  5 years agoPost 9
HelBilly

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Birdsboro Pa

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02-02-2013 01:04 AM  5 years agoPost 10
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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Still don't feel the need to spend money on it at the moment. It would be cool to have, but I am on a limited budget. I also don't have a laptop to plug it in to, so there would be additional cost.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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02-02-2013 01:45 AM  5 years agoPost 11
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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don't the spectrum RXs have some sort of memory that will tell you if they experience a signal lockout or any other component that has a recording feature enable like some ESCs?...may be good to look into that.

also be aware that some jerk may be out there shooting them down with a directional microwave Transmitter just for fun.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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02-02-2013 01:46 AM  5 years agoPost 12
Ace Dude

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USA

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Good spectrum analyzers cost $$$ thousands.

I'd highly recommend contacting a local amateur radio club. Explain your situation and see if they're willing to help. I bet they are, those guys live for this stuff and have (or can borrow) the right equipment and have the right skills.

Just Google Amateur Radio fox hunt and you'll get an idea of how much they enjoy this stuff.

Check http://www.arrl.org to find a local club near the field. Intermittent RF issues can sometimes take months to identify the source of the problem.

  

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02-02-2013 01:50 AM  5 years agoPost 13
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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don't the spectrum RXs have some sort of memory that will tell you if they experience a signal lockout or any other component that has a recording feature enable like some ESCs?...may be good to look into that.

also be aware that some jerk may be out there shooting them down with a directional microwave Transmitter just for fun.
DSMX receivers don't flash when lose and regain signal. DSM2 does blink when a signal is lost. I will check into the radio club, that sounds like a feasible idea.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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02-02-2013 02:15 AM  5 years agoPost 14
Wave

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Illinois

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Spektrum Flightlog will record frame losses and holds.

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02-02-2013 04:24 AM  5 years agoPost 15
YSRRider

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usa

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There are left over microwaves in the adjacent field from when the aliens made those crop circles.

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02-02-2013 05:06 AM  5 years agoPost 16
HelBilly

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Birdsboro Pa

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There is a app for that
Now you got me looking at these analyzers here is one that plugs into a iPhone or pad for $100

http://www.oscium.com/products/wipr...ectrum-analyzer

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02-02-2013 09:39 AM  5 years agoPost 17
RogerRabbit62

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Thuerigen germany

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I am radio amateur also.
Forget the 100 $ spectrum analyzers they will not tell you anything.

From the locations you see that it is at the turning points (from my understanding)Only the 450 is nearer, but people tend to build those not so dedicated towards safety than bigger birds, so this might have had another issue.

If you google a little on DSM and failiures you either will xchange to another system or at least build very stabalized power with capacitor filtering at the sattelites.

At the turning point the servos are most active and the receiving situation is badest.

Another important question would be the exact system configurations rx, tx, power supply, servos, cabeling (diameter/length) of the failed and the recovered bird.

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02-02-2013 10:05 AM  5 years agoPost 18
Derek Round

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Bradford, UK

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I lost a 2.4ghz heli a year ago, at my club in Spain, and as you can imagine I was a bit put out! I'm a Radio Amateur as well, and I judged it well worthwhile to invest in a £100 Spectrum Analyser, and its been VERY interesting. Firstly, I can completely debunk the claims that were made in the beginning of selling 2.4ghz to us, that the transmitters were "intelligent" and looked for a "quiet" area of the band to operate in. I have looked at a lot of sets now, and NONE of them do that! Most of the bottom end sets transmit on a single (wide) band that moves only when you switch the gear on, and by testing you can see it takes no account of the current "traffic" on the band. Better sets (like Spektrum DSM2 for example) transmit on TWO wide bands, and these both move only when the sets are switched on, and again take no account of any traffic on the band. The top end sets, like Spektrum DSMX and Futaba transmit proper Spread Spectrum signals, the "real deal", across the whole 2.4ghz band, and are very secure indeed. The simpler sets, with only one "band" of frequencies being used are somewhat vulnerable to another wideband transmission being on top of them, especially if it is a strong signal, like a video down link from a FPV model.
In my case, the only other flyer on the field was a flyer fiddling with his FPV model which was on the ground, and as I was using a simple (cheap) 2.4ghz set, transmitting on just one band of frequencies, I think I was shot down. There is nothing technically wrong with this gear either as I have flown it since in a slope soarer on several occasions, with no issues.
So, yes, get your site surveyed, somehow. Here in Spain, at our site there is an amazing amount of traffic on 2.4ghz, and some of it is very strong, but we have had no problems since, except for one suspect who had several 2.4ghz crashes, but on checking his TX, it was obvious it wasn't transmitting much, and we found the problem to be a poor aerial connection.
I hope this helps the discussion?
Derek

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02-02-2013 01:08 PM  5 years agoPost 19
RCHSF

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NC

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Ley lines, ley lines, you'll are flying across them. Lines that cress cross the earth they put off enormous energy. We have a few places around here. Where you can go out in a filed, no power lines or anything anywhere. And the hair on your head will stand up in a particular area. Were standing on a humongous power plant guys. "EARTH" Yeah you cross her lines your going down.

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02-02-2013 01:30 PM  5 years agoPost 20
RogerRabbit62

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Thuerigen germany

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The power lines do not anything to the 2.4gigs at least not here.
in some areas they are transmitting internet over the power lines then it is different.
This you could see on the 100$ spectrum analyzer.

Normal Power lines operate 30kV or 300kV 50Hz 3 Phase.
For the RX it is like a very small sailboat on a extremly long 2000m high wave.
It will not recognize it at all.

I fly direct under a 30kV line which goes over my property with the small electric birds up to a meter rotor.
Never had any issues, even on 35MHz

At the competitions they also have fields where power lines are direct nearby.

The unsecure protocol is the problem.

The only safe ones are the real distributes multi channesl systems.
The only ones i know are from Futaba so far.

you do not hear any issues from those.
I do not know about jeti´s system.

But just google DSM and failiure then you might read a whole drama since a few years.
DSM (also DSM2) needs a lot better circumstances than FASST to operate properly from what i have been seeing and reading.
Normally you will not notice that.
There are no more "unintended servo motions" where you could see failiures before the problem crash.
Things can build up slowly with a little corroded contact, little less batterie voltage eg, then you have the brownout of a sattelite when a medium strong signal disturbes.

Real FASST doesnt have those issues.

Expensive? 500$+ Radios?
You might think different after a accident with a human injury.

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