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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Do you balance every charge?
01-30-2013 07:31 PM  5 years agoPost 41
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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What he said does not apply to guys charging 6 or 8 packs at a time and no mention was made of any possible issues until it was brought up by someone else later.

I missed nothing but he calls me wrong and then says I'm right after MrMel says so.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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01-30-2013 07:33 PM  5 years agoPost 42
BladeStrikes

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Shelby TWP,Mi

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laughingstill Lon and MrMel siad two different things Ernie. MrMel said IF the IR of the two packs are different, you can end up with the Lower IR pack changing whereas the higher IR pack will stay the same
Lon said that he has had success in parallel charging multiple capacity packs (and so have I). He also said as long as you keep them a pair, they should be fine....I agree with both of them.......Ron
Like always,Mc is posting about something he knows nothing about and never owned so clearly trolling for drama which hes good at..

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01-30-2013 07:36 PM  5 years agoPost 43
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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I parallel charge pretty much every day.

Tell me again what I own and what I don't.....
He also said as long as you keep them a pair, they should be fine....I agree with both of them.......Ron
He spun that in AFTER MrMel posted that it could be an issue.

I also agree with that...Too bad he didn't say it in his first post that says uneven charging is impossible.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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01-30-2013 07:55 PM  5 years agoPost 44
MrMel

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Gotland

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So you do not recommend parallel charging for proper balance?
Look at it this way, For us that has been flying electric since lipo came out parallel charging is nothing new.

Why? Because all packs was parallel cells in the old days as lipo manufacturers could not make big cells.

I flew 10s4p 4000, it was 1000mah cells in 4p config.

They died, burned and overcharged just as easy as something else, or rather easier as it was 4 failure points and no way to monitor each cell.

just try this on your charger, charge in parallel then unplug ONE pack's balancer cable while you watch the voltage on the charger per cell.
Anyone dropping or raising a lot? then you have that imbalance between it, as the TWO in combination = equal to all others.

The problem occur when you have high current going in, of course when thing tamper down during CV Stage everything get more and more in balance, and after balancer is done, yes, you have equal voltage again.

But if you do not balance the difference can be quite large.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
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01-30-2013 08:00 PM  5 years agoPost 45
MrMel

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Gotland

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For the simpler explanation:

Two buckets, one with a big fat hose going into it at the bottom, the other with a thin hose.

Now put a Y connector and put high pressure into that one.

The one with big hose will fill quicker as the smaller one limit the input.

But leave it for a while without high pressure into the buckets it will balance out to be equal in both buckets.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-30-2013 08:04 PM  5 years agoPost 46
Stephen Born

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USA

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Look at it this way, For us that has been flying electric since lipo came out parallel charging is nothing new.
Why? Because all packs was parallel cells in the old days as lipo manufacturers could not make big cells.
I flew 10s4p 4000, it was 1000mah cells in 4p config.
They died, burned and overcharged just as easy as something else, or rather easier as it was 4 failure points and no way to monitor each cell.
just try this on your charger, charge in parallel then unplug ONE pack's balancer cable while you watch the voltage on the charger per cell.
Anyone dropping or raising a lot? then you have that imbalance between it, as the TWO in combination = equal to all others.
The problem occur when you have high current going in, of course when thing tamper down during CV Stage everything get more and more in balance, and after balancer is done, yes, you have equal voltage again.
But if you do not balance the difference can be quite large.
Yes, this makes complete sense.

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01-30-2013 08:29 PM  5 years agoPost 47
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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To the OP... Yes, every charge. Why not?

MrMel,
The one with big hose will fill quicker as the smaller one limit the input.
The only problem with this analogy is that in this case, the buckets are allowed to have different levels whereas with two cells connected in parallel, they must have the same voltage at all times. And, since LiPo State of Charge (SoC) is directly tied to voltage, they would also have the same SoC.

Or, are you saying that the difference in IR is enough to allow an actual slight difference in SoC? Even then, the IRs are so low that even the difference in SoC because of that will be slight.

Thanks,
John

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01-30-2013 08:33 PM  5 years agoPost 48
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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And, since LiPo State of Charge (SoC) is directly tied to voltage, they would also have the same SoC.
Series charging...yes.
Parallel...Not so much.

When parallel charging...can your charger tell you the voltage of ALL the individual cells?
No...the charger just sees one BIG cell.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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01-30-2013 08:37 PM  5 years agoPost 49
MrMel

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Gotland

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The only problem with this analogy is that in this case, the buckets are allowed to have different levels whereas with two cells connected in parallel, they must have the same voltage at all times. And, since LiPo State of Charge (SoC) is directly tied to voltage, they would also have the same SoC.
Or, are you saying that the difference in Ir is enough to allow an actual slight difference in SoC? Even then, the Irs are so low that even the difference in SoC because of that will be slight.
Yup, quite a lot difference actually (relative term but a lot more than I like to see on my packs), this of course was directly linked to amount of current going in.

So for sample,
Charger showed 4.00v, unplugged one pack it showed 3.9, plugged that back in and it showed 4.0 again, unplug the other and it shows 4.1

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-30-2013 08:51 PM  5 years agoPost 50
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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When parallel charging...can your charger tell you the voltage of ALL the individual cells?
McK,
When two or more cells are conected in parallel, they will have the same voltage at the point of parallel connection. It is physically impossible for them not too.

MrMel,
And under that observed condition, what were the IRs of the cells in question?

- John

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01-30-2013 09:01 PM  5 years agoPost 51
Stephen Born

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USA

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To the OP... Yes, every charge. Why not?
John, occasionally I "charge and fly". I wanted opinions about this practice.

I am glad I asked the question because this thread indicates safety and effeciency rely on the balancing, and the imperativeness to do so.

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01-30-2013 09:12 PM  5 years agoPost 52
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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Aerial,
It's definitely a pertinent and important question.

All,
I think uncovering why the bad old days of parallel cell packs was so troublesome versus today's practice of parallel charging are different is very important. Were the issues of parallel cell pack days because of cell technology and manufacturing technology limitations of the time? Were the cells simply not uniform enough? Was it because of temperature differences across those parallel cells?

Why is parallel charging generally viewed as safe today? Has cell technology and manufacturing matured such that the cells are much more consistent? Does the opportunity to test and monitor the cells individually lead to earlier detection of cells going bad? Are the higher balance currents available today masking any issues? Etc.

- John

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01-30-2013 09:17 PM  5 years agoPost 53
MrMel

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Gotland

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I think simple answer is that it's safe enough as chargers today is much better, more accurate and warns in time.

But NEVER trust it 100%.

For sample; I had a balance connector go bad on me, charger thought it was low cell voltage (bad connection) and it kept on balancing, and going on and on and on.

When I unplugged the pack it was way above risk of fire.

That's why unattended charging is still NEVER good.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-30-2013 10:38 PM  5 years agoPost 54
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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MrMel,
Your balance lead experience brings up an excellent and important point. When parallel charging, the charger does not and cannot know if one or more balance leads are not working! It is completely possible for one or more cells to NOT be being balanced and you will not know it.

- John

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01-30-2013 11:07 PM  5 years agoPost 55
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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Yes I balance every charge... My PL8 is great.

Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90

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01-31-2013 12:13 AM  5 years agoPost 56
Ace Dude

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USA

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Your balance lead experience brings up an excellent and important point. When parallel charging, the charger does not and cannot know if one or more balance leads are not working! It is completely possible for one or more cells to NOT be being balanced and you will not know it.
There's also the possibility the user could forget to plug in the balance connector on one or more packs altogether when parallel charging. As long as one pack is connected the charger will function normally.

  

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01-31-2013 02:24 AM  5 years agoPost 57
SGM Retired

rrApprentice

Toney, AL. USA

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I sync charge my 12S 3300's every time. With that said the caution about balance lead being bad brings up a good point. So now if I see one side (batt) go into balance mode for a long time I need to check leads for an open and or balance that batt as a stand along for QA/QC. Thanks for the pointers.

Trex 500FB Trex 600ePro McpX. Synergy E7SE

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01-31-2013 02:35 AM  5 years agoPost 58
dbldins

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Nicholasville,Ky.

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I balance charge every cycle. Most info I've read suggests balancing is better and I've never just charged, but balancing has kept my cells very accurate and long lasting.

I wish I still flew!!!

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01-31-2013 03:16 AM  5 years agoPost 59
T-Rex-Flyer

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Panama City, Fl

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Yes, no reason not to.

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.

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01-31-2013 05:34 AM  5 years agoPost 60
Wynn1427

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Ca. 93612

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Balance charge everytime for me and stopped parallel charging for some of the reasons mentioned here. Nothing but High C field charging. Very limited babysitting you have to do

Wynn

Logo 550sx

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Do you balance every charge?
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