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HomeAircraftHelicopterBeginners Corner › 120sr to 450. Fingers crossed
01-30-2013 03:20 PM  5 years agoPost 1
Craddock

rrNovice

Chippewa falls, WI

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Kind of an introductory post. Just purchased a real nice gently used 450 from an experienced pilot. Everyone is telling me I need a bunch of sim time and some other step in between first. No one has seen me fly and I have never seen anyone else. I do realize the advise is all good and I understand it, just maybe a little over confident. Have some time before I fly it so maybe I will be persuaded. Anyway, wish me luck and really just wanted to check in an introduce myself. I'm excited

Josh

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01-30-2013 03:27 PM  5 years agoPost 2
heliocolorado

rrNovice

brighton colorado

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Welcome, I took a similar path not long ago, 130x to 300X. But it broke the code for me. Still work all maneuvers on the sim before moving to the real thing. Really helps keep costs down. Ron Lund has some great tutorials on set up for the beast you might find useful at some point. Fingers are crossed

Cheers

DK

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01-31-2013 12:20 PM  5 years agoPost 3
chuck1073

rrApprentice

North Stonington, CT

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From 130x to 300x is CP to CP. From the 120SR to a 450 is FP to CP. Definitely get some sim time under your belt, there's a lot of difference there. I did the same transition last year. The head speed alone is a real eye opener. You've got a good base in the 120....the 450 will be a whole new ballgame though. FB or FBL?

Trex 700N - Raptor 50 FBL - B450FBL - 130X - mCPxBL - AMA #998104

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01-31-2013 01:07 PM  5 years agoPost 4
Craddock

rrNovice

Chippewa falls, WI

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Flybar. I really want to go fbl but read there is alot more to the set up and I know nothing as it is. I can always convert it later. I don't have a sim yet so maybe I will just let it sit for know. I rushed on this purchase a tad

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01-31-2013 02:20 PM  5 years agoPost 5
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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+1^^^^^^
I agree 100% with chuck1073...
You will be going from fixed pitch to collective with a much different heli...
The sim is the best possible tool you can have.. as you use it just consider every time you crash on it, figuring low, that it saved you %50.00.. you will most likely save the entire purchase price during your first sit down with it....use it as a learning tool... pick a spot and learn to hover in all orientations over that spot.. break it up with some flying around and fun stuff, but every flight starts in a hover and ends in a hover (at least we hope so)
You can get deals all the time here on RR... both the Phoenix and the Real Flight are excellent as long as you stay at least G3.5 on the RF unit.. I like and use the Phoenix...
ALSO... do you have a local club or other heli flyers in your area?? Check in at your local hobby shop and they might be able to give you some info.. check the Mentor list at the beginning of the Beginners section or hit the AMA site for local clubs in your area...
Good Luck and keep it fun.... Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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01-31-2013 04:50 PM  5 years agoPost 6
Craddock

rrNovice

Chippewa falls, WI

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Regarding other locals, well lets just say I'm the best heli pilot I have ever seen. Of course the only also. I don't have any avenues for help at this point.

I don't see orientations being the issue so much as having negative collective to deal with. I purposely keep my 120 badly out of trim to reasure I need to always be on the sticks and flying it all the time at every orientation. Now 3d is a different story and will need all the sim time I can get when I want that. I like flying through the trees and around a sort of course fff. I have been strapped to a bell 412 with my feet hanging over the skids doing low fff in a similar fashion and where my interest in scale type flying comes from. I am just so sick tired of the 45° flybar on my fp that fights me constantly. I have to so over compensate for it coming out of every hard turn to keep it going low and fast that would drive a cp right into the ground(I assume anyway). I just don't understand why I need to learn orientations all over. I wouldn't even think of getting a 450 if I had concerns there. I just can't to anything more with the fp and am bored with it. I want a heli that goes where the input directs it.

Maybe I will just let it sit until I can find someone to walk me thru some stuff. I c,an't afford to keep crashing it. I really thought I would be able to just hover it. If thats not the case perhaps I should sell it. I would be willing to drive somewhere to meet someone so I will put some feelers out there

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01-31-2013 05:08 PM  5 years agoPost 7
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Training Gear
Get yourself a couple of wooden dowel, maybe 3/8" and then 4 small wiffle type golf balls..
Cut the dowes in half...drill and put a wiffly ball on each end.. make an X shape and center it under you 450.. tie wrap the legs to the struts on your heli... if you are certain that you have a good set up on your 450, you can then give hovering a try... it will fly the same at 12" up as it does at 40' up... so maybe you can give it a try and just keep it low so that if you do mess up, the training gear will help keep it from tipping over... it would be nice if you could find someone local to help you check it out and get it set up properly in your Tx...
I am pretty sure you will be surprised how many heli fliers there are in your surrounding area.. so do try to locate them...

Just another thought.... Good Luck, Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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01-31-2013 08:07 PM  5 years agoPost 8
Craddock

rrNovice

Chippewa falls, WI

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Thanks for the advise. Training gear sounds like a perfect plan. Especially a this heli has tt over belt. Not sure if I can convert. I liked the electronics and sucked in to this heli because I liked the guy a bought it from and trusted.

One question about hovering low. I know when I whip my 120sr around the living room I get lots of dirty air and rotor that will really shudder the bird flying through it. When I bring it in to land it gets real squirrely as it gets close. I assumed because of the head speed the 450 would be worse but if it will be as controllable at a foot maybe the weight makes up for the increased air movement? Sorry if it is a silly question

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01-31-2013 08:58 PM  5 years agoPost 9
chuck1073

rrApprentice

North Stonington, CT

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All valid stuff Craddock.

Training gear will help lots when you're first learning to hover the bigger bird...especially from a "tip-over insurance" standpoint. The dowel, wiffle golfball type is the best. On a light heli like a 450 your can even secure the gear with a couple of rubber bands. If you were closer by I'd give you the pair that I made. Home Depot and Wal Mart have all of the materials. You Tube has some construction vids as well. Stay away from the pre-made "Blade" type...they're awful.

As far as landing and rotor-wash, you'll ge the hang of it. Most 450's can "baby auto" from a foot or less as well.

TT vs. belt? The belt is more forgiving if you do have a tail rotor touch but....you should be fine. Don;t know about conversion...you're probably better off leaving well enough alone.

Trex 700N - Raptor 50 FBL - B450FBL - 130X - mCPxBL - AMA #998104

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01-31-2013 11:37 PM  5 years agoPost 10
whitehedr

rrApprentice

New Lenox, Il USA

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You don't need or want a lot of negative pitch when you are learning to fly a CP machine. I suggest that you read and understand this thread on RCGROUPS. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1651066

If you set your machine up like the good CaptJac suggests you will be hovering and flying in no time. Big negative pitch inputs close to the ground tend to destroy CP machines when the controller is in the hands of a rookie flyer.

You also need to learn to hit TH (Throttle Hold) if you find yourself in an unrecoverable position. This learned reflex will also save you some rebuild bucks in the event of a crash.

I also highly recommend some sim time. If you get Phoenix you can participate in CaptJacs Phoenix Flight School.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1234396

The Flight School will have you hovering the sim after one lesson with Jack. He walks you through initial Tx and Sim setup so you get things working correctly and not having the Tx and sim fighting each other.

Oh, one other piece of advice, get yourself a decent Tx. Having a decent radio that you can grow with is very important. I bought the DX6i as my first radio and have been very pleased with it. It will Bind to all of the Blade products ( of which you have one) It also was easily connected to Phoenix so you can use the radio you are fling with to also train with.

Good luck with your transition into the CP world. It is right up there in the top five things you can do with your clothes on.

RWW

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02-01-2013 01:50 PM  5 years agoPost 11
Craddock

rrNovice

Chippewa falls, WI

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Lots of good advice here. I do have a good grasp how I want to set it up(not to be confused with how to set it up). I think I may have actually read that thread you linked but I will be sure to read it either way tonight. If I remember I want like -2 negative pitch.

Top 5 with clothes on? I don't know about that. I have pretty strong resume of fun. Lol. Heli related how about having feet hanging over b412 skids going 100 mph below the tops of the tree, having the rotor wash bend them out of way. Or hard bank to slip between a gap in trees(which leaves you facing straight up or down depending in which side of the door frame your sitting on. Skids 4 ft agl in 10 ft corn in fff. Then jumping out in a hover at 5k. That doesn't make the top five but thought heli fans could appreciate

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02-25-2013 12:48 AM  5 years agoPost 12
Thrust Bearing

rrNovice

Cincinnati, Ohio - USA

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So Craddock,
How's it going? I was reading the thread, and was wondering why the big step in size?
I have a 120SR that I'm learning on, but I also have a mCPx and a 130x. I'm taking baby steps with these because they are cheep to repair and a little tricky to fly. I figure if I can learn to fly these, I will be able to take on a 500 or 600 size.
I haven't been using a sim but I spent a lot of time outside in the yard practicing.

The collective pitch heli's are a lot different to fly then fixed pitched. They react much quicker. You will crash and crash and crash. But the best part about the small heli's is that they hold up well.

I think by this time next year I may be ready for
A larger bird. But that's just me.

Easy on the stick...

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02-26-2013 02:15 AM  5 years agoPost 13
Craddock

rrNovice

Chippewa falls, WI

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I haven't had it off the ground yet. It is warm here this week and snow is melting. I may take it out on the lake real soon. I just finally got a charger on saturday and still have only one battery and no power supply. I do have a few spare parts and the guy set it up with a belt tail to that should help. I have just been going over set up to learn. I do have a twitching or buzzing tail servo. It is like the gyro is always sending it a signal?

The main reason for the size is because even though I have very good vision I have a hard time determining orientation at a distance, especially flying at dusk when the wind is down. I usually fly a couple packs right before dark on my 120sr( am I supposed to let motor cool down) and when flying hard and low I get confused after a steep corner. Perhaps lights would help. I don't fly it much anymore as I have bored of fighting the 45° flybar. Been flying a little inside but just burned tail motor out and need to run a couple packs through again.

I will update how it goes on the 450 soon. I'm a bit nervous but I can't progress any more on the fp 120

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03-08-2013 02:22 PM  5 years agoPost 14
Craddock

rrNovice

Chippewa falls, WI

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Update. Well it was above freezing and sunny with no wind and I finally decided to get my bird off the ground!! Well.....I am now ordering parts or actually still trying to determine where to find what I need and what versions I need. All the advice here was spot on. On top of that I could not have went about it any worst, from the size of the area I was in (yard), to my impaitence. Like most skydiving and BASE jumping incidents, a chain of events. Just too many. I learning humbling experience.

In the mean time off to find wiffle balls and then need some rubber for my pad. It was sliding of the plywood (snow and ice here) and I had to bump it off the pad quick or shut down.

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03-08-2013 03:01 PM  5 years agoPost 15
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Your Gonna Be Just Fine!!!
You learned a valuable lesson, and will learn a lot more as you progress.. I am surprised that you didn't give it a go a bit sooner.. I know that I would have had to.. so maybe that nasty weather you have was a good thing.. but at least you gave it a go.. and now you have a better idea of why the training gear, the watch and read links, and sim were all suggested.. WE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE....don't forget that just about everyone on this site had to go thru the same stuff while learning!!
Hopefully you did minimal damage, and make sure, as suggested earlier, you know and use the throttle hold as soon as you think you have lost it.. that will take the power away and limit a lot of the damage..
Good luck and hang in there...no doubt here that you will make it!!!
Oh, and welcome to the ADDICTION!!! If had posted that I tried it, messed up and am going to put it back on the shelf for awhile, I would have thought well maybe he will make it!!! BUT, I am headed out to find whiffle balls shows that you are getting right back on that horse.. Keep us posted...

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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03-08-2013 03:29 PM  5 years agoPost 16
Craddock

rrNovice

Chippewa falls, WI

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It was acting funny on the pad requiring a bit of rudder to hold the tail which it hadn't in previous spool ups. So maybe something was already bent. I had crashed it into a snow bank on previous attempt when it took off backward and left after lift off and was headed toward house. Hit th but just before impact. Blew snow out and let it dry but didn't inspect it tip to tail as I thought snow cushioned it. Last attempt it was sliding off plywood so I lifted it quick and it went back fast and was sliding a well going down and went in tail first. TH too late. whole thing happened fast. Main shaft, feathering shaft. Boom(going to try and straighten), plastic fork thing on tail I can not find, main gear. Tail shaft may have little wobble but hard to tell from where. It sounds like the guy I bought it from(very cool guy) is going to send me some parts and I am going to get some cheap spares on ebay on the way once I figure out which ones.

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03-13-2013 02:48 PM  5 years agoPost 17
JRjoe

rrElite Veteran

Jonesville , IN USA #1

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Get yoursef a sim and find an experienced pilot to help you with setup and proper trim.

It's a steep learning curve but you will get it..


JRjoe.....
Indoor plumbing??? No, we don't need that!!!

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03-17-2013 10:26 PM  5 years agoPost 18
newheliguy1

rrNovice

Frazeysburg,Ohio

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Sim-Sim-Sim
I cant stress enough how much a good sim helped me learn to hover tail in. And a 450 is very touchy. I have a 120sr and it is nothing like a 450.

Kurt

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03-17-2013 10:36 PM  5 years agoPost 19
Craddock

rrNovice

Chippewa falls, WI

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thanks, I am going to order a sim cable from china this week as I can not find one in this side of the pond. I figure either way I am going to want to play with a sim for other things as well, so with that said... and all the advice here I better listen up. I still wish I had someone to help with set up and trim as the thing went straight back all three flights and I should have been in a field. I had too much stuff to damage in the vicinity. Poor judgement.

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03-18-2013 03:13 AM  5 years agoPost 20
motorhead540

rrApprentice

eaglecreek,oregon - USA

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agree with all the advice also need to check cg on the heli with battery installed can cause terrible loss of control just as easy as being out of trim or improper setup

wife says if i'm going to be an addict at least its to a heli

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HomeAircraftHelicopterBeginners Corner › 120sr to 450. Fingers crossed
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