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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Grip Bearing Arrangement - Part II
01-29-2013 04:15 AM  5 years agoPost 1
Ace Dude

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USA

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I still have three simple questions regarding the discussion on Grip Bearing Arrangement:

1) Which r/t/r helicopter(s) do you own?

2) Do you believe Henseleit Helicopters won the 2012 IRCHA Seed Cup simply because of their grip bearing arrangement?

3) The real practical question is, how much better is r/t/r vs. r/r/t in our specific (i.e., 500-800 size R/C helicopters) application.

If you can't measure the difference in question 3, then it doesn't exist.

  

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01-29-2013 04:26 AM  5 years agoPost 2
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Agree its strange simple questions can not be simply answered. A usefull thread is always one that can ask questions and also answer some yourself to decide relevance to our shared hobby.

In industrial applications of large mass and forces the arrangement can make a difference. In our hobby of RC helicopters the quality of the bearings and the fitment of those bearings to their holders is far more crucial then their arrangement. That's the truth and does not take a engineering degree being mentioned to be true.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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01-29-2013 04:29 AM  5 years agoPost 3
Ace Dude

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USA

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This issue has been discussed before. John Beech asked the question some years back when designing his Audacity helicopter and I believe went on to build it with R/T/R blade grips, FWIW. steve.
Steve, I checked the Audacity manual (page 55 in the link below) and sure enough it uses the RTR arrangement you indicated. I was not aware it utilized this arrangement so thanks for pointing that out.

http://www.audacitymodels.com/P50ma...50-EXPLODED.pdf

  

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01-29-2013 05:09 AM  5 years agoPost 4
Santiago P

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South West, Ohio

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Both RYR and RRT arrangement can be made to work just fine, once it has the inner shoulder in the blade grip wherever is needed so the axial load is transferred from the grip to the thrust bearing.

The RTR layout gives the grip the most stability as it gives the two R bearings best separation.

The RRT layout may work better in some cases where the grip length is shorter and the bearings must be stacked against each other.

Understand that is the outside radial bearing race what rides against the thrust stack, the inner race only sees the spindle normal/radial load.

I would think you have already beaten this horse into submission

santiago

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01-29-2013 05:18 AM  5 years agoPost 5
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Agree guess we just can't get answers from the engineer/god in another thread so ya gotta at least try to have a thread where people want simple answers and can offer honest answers and opinions.

I see more part 2 threads in future.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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01-29-2013 05:22 AM  5 years agoPost 6
Down Low

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Calgary, AB

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My Compass 3D Plus (600 size nitro) has a R/T/R arrangement in both the main and tail blade grips FWIW.

Airtronics SD10G, SK540, Novarossi .57 3DS, Synergy N5c in the works

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01-29-2013 05:24 AM  5 years agoPost 7
steve9534

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yakima, wa.

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Ace
The answer to question #3 was in the previous thread.

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01-29-2013 05:40 AM  5 years agoPost 8
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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I don't recall seeing #3 answered in the old thread. I was looking for a specific measurement with some units given so we would know how much better one design is versus the other design. If the measurable percentage of increase minimal the argument is moot.

  

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01-29-2013 06:52 AM  5 years agoPost 9
da20driver

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Midland, TX

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Somewhere between 21.472 and 34.781% better.

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01-29-2013 07:34 AM  5 years agoPost 10
1tonv

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Pontiac, michigan. U.S.A.

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i have been reading this thread and part 1. i was gonna jump in but it was interesting to see just how far it would go. now after it was asked just how important this is to our hobby i had to jump in. its not very important at all. in fact thrust bearings, on the tail, are not even required AT ALL!!!!!! i flew my synergy N9 with hyper tail grips, wich they only use radial. i flew the hell otta that heli i bet i had over 300 flights with not one tail issue. now on the head ive flown both and neither one or the other works better. they both work just fine. i find it crazy how deep this has been looked at. all time spent on this could have been time out in the field realizing that it wasnt really that important at all.

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01-29-2013 08:19 AM  5 years agoPost 11
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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True to both Tony's comments.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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01-29-2013 10:16 AM  5 years agoPost 12
wrongler

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Brewerton, New York

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I read all the #1 post as it was going on, And quite a few times I thought "who cares" Just build it and fly if it doesn't work, try something different!
Its OK to have an open discussion, But this kept going on and on!
Build it, Fly it and enjoy the hobby and the people! Quit picking each other apart!

Bill Whittaker

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01-29-2013 10:31 AM  5 years agoPost 13
Climax

rrVeteran

West London, United Kingdom

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The design of the Blitz Avro lets you choose the grip bearing arrangement...

This is bound to be controversial, but their how and why is briefly described starting on page 35 of the Avro's manual.

Electronics, Physics, Helicopters, Fixing Things...

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01-29-2013 01:58 PM  5 years agoPost 14
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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i have been reading this thread and part 1. i was gonna jump in but it was interesting to see just how far it would go. now after it was asked just how important this is to our hobby i had to jump in. its not very important at all.
I agree! I've been in the hobby for over 15 years and every helicopter I've owned has been RRT. I can't say I knew RTR existed. I can see where RTR might be slightly better. However, the key is how much better in our specific application?

Often times Engineers get so caught up in a design superiority complex (DSC) they loose track of the application at hand. It's normal and it happens all the time. What is important is to ensure the design confirms to the requirements. No matter how precise any design is it still has tolerances.

  

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01-29-2013 02:40 PM  5 years agoPost 15
Heli 770

rrProfessor

USA.

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All the R30/50 had RTR main grips, also the 325 mini Titan.

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01-29-2013 03:07 PM  5 years agoPost 16
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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I did have two R30s. I guess I forgot they were RTR.

  

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01-29-2013 03:47 PM  5 years agoPost 17
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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Both RRT and RTR are correct when designed as intended.
My Hirobo FAI machine is RRT and my Diabolo is RTR, both are flawless.
There is more than one way to skin the cat.

enough of this...

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01-29-2013 06:47 PM  5 years agoPost 18
rcflyerheli

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Granbury, TX USA

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All of my Align 500s and 600s are RRT and my 700s are RTR. Goblin 700 Runs RTR and Gaux7 is RTR.

FWIW.

Logo 700, Specter 700, Goblin 700, Trex 700DFC, Gaui X7, Logo 690SX, Logo 600SX; Trex 470 Trex 500
Amain Team Rep

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